Gandalf you have distanced yourself, a few times, from the gay pride interpretation of Muhammed's call to execute homosexuals.

Your description of free speech - the freedom to criticize whomever you want, making up things about them and sometimes getting your facts wrong because we're all human - is phoney too. Freedom of speech was meant to disseminate forms of truth, not the propagation of lies. Your conception of free speech embraces Goebels, Pol Pot, and yes, protesters who want to behead all those who insult the prophet.

Freedom of speech does have limits. If you're going to "criticize" something or someone, you should make sure you've got your facts straight. Twisting the words of others, lying about what they said, and doing everything in your power to "criticize" them, is not freedom of speech.

You know it, I know it, and FD knows it, which is why he avoids a sensible discussion on the subject.

I think my criticism of Islam is entirely reasonable.

Karnal wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 11:12am:



You claim - that i make things up.



k,

I have proposed that ISLAM, is a philosophy which encourages lawlessness and criminality [by our Australian laws].

What is my error ?
My evidence for my claim, that ISLAM, is a philosophy which encourages lawlessness and criminality [by our Australian laws] - is below.

+++

Ibn Umar reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said:

Listening to and obeying the leader is an obligation as long as he does not command disobedience to Allah. If he commands disobedience, then there is no listening to him or obedience.

Source: Sahih Bukhari 2796, Grade: Sahih

Sheikh Salman Al-Oadah said:

Muslims living in non-Muslim countries have to comply with laws and regulations of the country they have been entrusted though valid visas to enter. At the same time, they have to avoid whatever contradicts Islamic teachings. In case they are obliged by law to uphold something contrary to Islamic teachings, they have to adhere to the minimum that the law requires of them.

One of the best approaches for a Muslim living in these countries is patience. As long as he agrees to live in a non-Muslim country, he is never to rebel against the inhabitants of his choice of residence, even it seems too hard for him to endure.

Source: Islamtoday.net

One of the best approaches for a Muslim living in these countries is patience.

But then, how do we account for Christians who accept homosexuality? Paul is quite clear that homosexuality is a sin, and Christians don't have taqqiya.

The Christians I've heard or read on this issue say that the entirity of Jesus's teachings must be taken into account, not isolated or out of context quotes.

k,

I have proposed that ISLAM, is a philosophy which encourages lawlessness and criminality [by our Australian laws].

What is my error ?

Individual choice is an integral facet of religious devotion, and the Qur’an acknowledge this in the verse, “There is no compulsion in religion” (2:256).  Furthermore, the Qur’an draws firm limits toward entrenched thinking in relation to Non-Muslims.  It states, “Had God willed, they had not been idolatrous.  We have not set thee as a keeper over them, nor art thou responsible for them” (6:107).  Here, the Qur’an instructs us to recognize Non-Muslims’ religious self-sovereignty and to leave them alone!

The Qur’an goes further than religious freedom, instructing Muslims to show tolerance and respect to other religions.  The verse, “Do not revile those unto whom they pray beside God, lest they wrongfully revile God through ignorance” (6:108), directly forbids verbal religious intolerance, candidly pointing out the logical consequence of mutual animosity and hatred.

God commands the Muslims to show indulgence, tolerance, forgiveness, justice, and compassion toward Non-Muslim groups who do not take up arms fighting against Muslims.  God says, “God does not forbid you to be kind to those who do not take arms against you.  God loves those who are just” (60:8).

In all of these cases, as in the case of peace and cooperation, the Qur’an enjoins forgiveness, indulgence, justice, and compassion toward Non-Muslims.  For example, the Qur’an mentions that some groups of Jews and Christians wish for ruination of Muslim nations.  Toward them, the Qur’an instructs, “Forgive and show indulgence to them…Whosoever surrendereth his purpose to God while doing good, his reward is with his Lord; and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve” (2:109-112).

In another chapter, the Qur’an deals with situations where Muslims might feel hatred toward Non-Muslim groups.  Again, the message is patience and justice.  God says, “Do not allow your hatred of a folk who [once] stopped your going to the Inviolable Place of Worship [2] seduce you to transgress; but help ye one another unto righteousness and pious duty.  Help not one another unto sin and transgression, but keep your duty to God” (5:2).  Warring nations confront a difficult psychological task when arms are finally laid aside for olive branches.  What happens to the hearts that remember lost soldiers and former offenses?  The Qur’anic reply is God-consciousness.  By remembering God’s love for justice, we can avoid seductions of violence and vengefulness.