Australian Politics Forum - The "core tenets" of Islam

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96360	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #180 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 10:06pm Hey, FD - do you often promote arguments that you know to be crap? You can tell us.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #181 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 10:15pm

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 7:08pm:

You are making crap up about Muhammed's command to execute homosexuals being a statement of peace of tolerance of true gay love

Absolutely no point persisting with you is there FD?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 7:32pm:

ask in a specific thread in a forum not modded by muslims, please.
From past experience, I don't trust them.

Being a global moderator, nowhere is safe from this muslim Wink

But fear not sprint - I have no desire to delete your posts - its rather enjoyable watching you embarass yourself.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #182 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 10:39pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 1:58pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 12:58pm:

Quote:

Are you suggesting that I am violating someone's freedom of religion, or advocating it's violation? Does freedom to you mean freedom from criticism, or freedom from criticism that you disapprove of?

[quote]As I've argued, any criticism of Islam or the actions of Muslims should be based on actual facts.

So you agree that it does not make sense to demand the criticism itself be true?

Of course criticism of others should be true. Who would argue anything else?

You have argued against Muslim immigration - you're arguing to discriminate on entry to Australia on the basis of religion. If this doesn't violate someone's freedom of religion, I don't know what does.

Islam is not a religion - private, personal creed (which is what 'religious freedom' is taken to be.)
It is a political ideology like Zionism.
That is why 'Islam' has so much trouble with Zionism -it is a political clash, not a religious one.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96360	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #183 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 10:47pm True, old dear. Here at the Faculty, we believe that the personal is political. As a Freudian, I’m sure you will concur. As a cheeseating Lutheran Hun, who knows? Anything goes.
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #184 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 11:03pm

Soren wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 10:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 1:58pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 12:58pm:

Quote:

Are you suggesting that I am violating someone's freedom of religion, or advocating it's violation? Does freedom to you mean freedom from criticism, or freedom from criticism that you disapprove of?

[quote]As I've argued, any criticism of Islam or the actions of Muslims should be based on actual facts.

So you agree that it does not make sense to demand the criticism itself be true?

Of course criticism of others should be true. Who would argue anything else?

You have argued against Muslim immigration - you're arguing to discriminate on entry to Australia on the basis of religion. If this doesn't violate someone's freedom of religion, I don't know what does.

Islam is not a religion - private, personal creed (which is what 'religious freedom' is taken to be.)
It is a political ideology like Zionism.
That is why 'Islam' has so much trouble with Zionism -it is a political clash, not a religious one.

yes. muslims should be banned as they want their laws imposed on Aussie.

So chuck 'em out

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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Karnal

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #185 - Jun 14^th, 2014 at 12:27am

Yes, and we’ve already been shown exactly where the Koran instructs against imposing laws on non-Muslim countries, chapter and verse.

Still, here you are telling Aussie to change its laws. Which religion are you from, Sprint?

Sorry - don’t answer that. Can I ask which country you’re from instead? Or should I start a new thread to ask this?

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freediver

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #186 - Jun 14^th, 2014 at 9:14am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 10:15pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 7:08pm:

You are making crap up about Muhammed's command to execute homosexuals being a statement of peace of tolerance of true gay love

Absolutely no point persisting with you is there FD?

Do you believe the "Muslim LBGT argument" you have promoted about Muhammed's command to execute homosexuals?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #187 - Jun 14^th, 2014 at 10:34am I believe the argument I articulated. Not your version of it.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Datalife

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #188 - Jun 14^th, 2014 at 10:41am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 1:41pm:

No, the islamic dress code is very clear - for women, clothing must cover the torso and be loose fitting and ensure that the shape of the breasts and buttocks are not obviously visible, and that you cannot see the breasts bouncing when the woman moves.

Quote:

Giving a hint of their vision of a caliphate, ISIL published sharia rules for the realm they have carved out in northern Iraq, including a ban on drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and an edict on women to wear only all-covering, shapeless clothing.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/13/us-iraq-security-idUSKBN0EN0RV20140613

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #189 - Jun 14^th, 2014 at 10:51am sinnister innit data?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Datalife

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #190 - Jun 14^th, 2014 at 11:15am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 14^th, 2014 at 10:51am:

sinnister innit data?

It appears that it is an edict that you and the jihadists both agree on, very clear as you say. But yes, if like me, you prefer a society where women can dress as they want, including uncovered meat, or anonymous and faceless peering out of a head to ground black letter box then yes, sinister and repressive.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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freediver

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #191 - Jun 14^th, 2014 at 11:28am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 14^th, 2014 at 10:34am:

I believe the argument I articulated. Not your version of it.

So why do you keep disowning it?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 7:40pm:

But the argument has been made (not by me)

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:57pm:

Islamic LGBT activist argue

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Yadda

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #192 - Jun 14^th, 2014 at 11:45am

Yadda wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 11:51am:

k,

I have proposed that ISLAM, is a philosophy which encourages lawlessness and criminality [by our Australian laws].

What is my error ?

Karnal wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 12:10pm:

Your error is this:

Quote:

Sheikh Salman Al-Oadah said:

Muslims living in non-Muslim countries have to comply with laws and regulations of the country they have been entrusted though valid visas to enter. At the same time, they have to avoid whatever contradicts Islamic teachings. In case they are obliged by law to uphold something contrary to Islamic teachings, they have to adhere to the minimum that the law requires of them.

One of the best approaches for a Muslim living in these countries is patience. As long as he agrees to live in a non-Muslim country, he is never to rebel against the inhabitants of his choice of residence, even it seems too hard for him to endure.

Source: Islamtoday.net

There you go, Y, your error is the whole line on criminality.

If you continue posting this error with the information above, it becomes a lie.

K,

I am not posting an error.

THAT MOSLEM IS A LIAR.

Moslems spread their lies, to spread confusion among their enemies - LYING IS A TACTIC OF MOSLEM WAR.

Moslems spread their lies, pretending to be tolerant of their enemies, their non-moslem society, their non-moslem law - IT IS A LIE.

ALL of these moslem declarations of moslem tolerance, of those who are not moslems - IT IS A LIE.

And i can prove it.

K,

If we know [if we learn] that a person we know is continually deceiving us [for a nefarious and malicious purpose],
THEN HOW CAN WE HAVE A MEANINGFUL AND PEACEFUL RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT PERSON ?

We cannot.

And that is the relationship that the Australian community has with members of the moslem community.

e.g.
A body representing British 'mainstream' moslems, The Muslim Council of Britain
, has declared on its website;

Quote:

Rejecting Terror
Thursday, 11 April 2013

Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent.

There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith.

The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace.

It [ISLAM] rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewst...
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656

"[ISLAM] rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony."

Honest!

A body representing British 'mainstream' moslems, The Muslim Council of Britain
, has declared that it is;

"innocent human beings"

that are safe from moslem warfare, and moslem terror.

NOBODY ELSE IS SAFE FROM THE MOSLEM JIHAD!!!

AND THE INFIDEL IS -- NOT -- SAFE FROM THE MOSLEM JIHAD!!!

Elsewhere, the moslems of the UK have declared who the moslem regards as an;

"innocent human beings"

YT
KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE
"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
"...no, i could never condemn a moslem brother, i would never condemn a moslem brother. I will always stand with my moslem brother....whether he is an oppresser or the oppressed."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

K,

All of your protestations about moslem tolerance of, and their intent of a peaceful relationship with their non-moslem hosts, in non-moslem host nations,

is shown to be a GIANT lie, by moslems.

K,

YOU ARE A FAKE.

YOU ARE NOT A SINCERE PERSON.

YOU ARE INTENTIONALLY SPREADING THE LIES THAT MOSLEMS SPREAD.

+++

With the moslem, the direct circumstance of the moslem, himself, always dictates [for the moslem] what 'truth' is, and dictates the type and the nature of the relationship that the moslem has with those around him, who are not moslems;

IMAGE...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami

Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong

"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.
When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-isla...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #193 - Jun 14^th, 2014 at 12:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 12:22pm:

Yes, K, but remember its all about "biding their time". They are not law abiding and loyal to their adopted country - they are smart, cold and calculated.

Never forget that at all times we must presume the worst of muslims.

Yes we must.

Because it is the Koran which ultimately guides the moslem, and dictates to the moslem, the nature of THE ONLY LAWFUL relationship, that the moslem must seek to establish with all 'disbelievers';

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29i Quote:

Oh man, just watch how Y and/or FD spin's this.

I don't have to spin anything.

Listen to how moslem teachers and community leaders advise members of the moslem community, on the type of of relationship, that the moslem must seek to establish with all 'disbelievers';

IMAGE...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami

Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong

"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.
When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-isla...

How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

Google,
smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

Quote:

"A Study in Muslim Doctrine

...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden,

insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine

Google;

taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

Taqiyya

“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

google

QUESTION;
How can anyone [e.g. non-moslems] have a meaningful relationship with another person [e.g. a moslem], when that 2nd person [e.g. a moslem] is constantly and intentionally deceiving them - for malicious and nefarious reasons.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #194 - Jun 14^th, 2014 at 12:20pm

You sound a bit cranky, Y. Sala’am Aleikum to you on this great new day.

Why would imams lie to Muslims in their sermons and lessons? Why would Mo lie to Muslims in the Koran? And why would I lie by posting the first page in a Google search with millions of sites saying exactly the same thing?

No, Y, I can prove it: no Muselman has ever blown me up, beheaded me or tried to change my laws.

Allah Uakbar, no?

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