Australian Politics Forum - The "core tenets" of Islam

freediver

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #60 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:00pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 7:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 7:16pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 6:53pm:

Were Abu and Falah mistaken in what they believe to be Islam?

I don't know much about what they believe to be islam.

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 6:53pm:

Would you say that equality before the law, regardless of sex, religion or race, is a core tenet of Islam? What about tolerance of homsexuality?

Like I said - *ALL* universal moral values.

Is tolerance of homosexuality a universal moral value?

Can you name one (1) world religion that tolerates hommersexuality, FD?

Don’t evade the question, please.

Islam, apparently.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96347	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #61 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:06pm I’m writing you up for evasion for that. That makes you no better than the Muselman, you know. Google: Taqiyya.
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freediver

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #62 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:08pm

Quote:

Muhammad himself had stated, “If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.”[5] He even went so far as to condemn the “appearance” of homosexuality, when he cursed effeminate men and masculine women and ordered his followers to "Turn them out of your houses."[6] This ruling on homosexuals was naturally adopted by his later successors.
The father of Aisha and Muhammad’s first successor, Abu Bakr, had a homosexual burned at the stake. The fourth Rightly-Guided Caliph, Muhammad’s son-in-law Ali, ordered homosexuals to be stoned, and even had one thrown from the minaret of a mosque.[7] These actions quite obviously pre-date any sort of Western influence on Islamic thought.

Gandalf was Muhammed also mistaken about the true nature of Islam?

How tolerant of homosexuality are you? Would you describe yourself as a "gay pride Muslim"?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96347	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #63 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:15pm It’s possible, FD - a bit like how Y and the old boy always become hommersexual activists when discussing Islam. You?
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49335 At my desk.	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #64 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:20pm I'm a live and let live kind of person. Possibly a live and let live kind of Muslim. Wally still hasn't gotten back to me. What do you think Gandalf? Am I a Muslim too? I like long walks on the beach and I'm not into gay-bashing.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #65 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:22pm Mattywisk wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 8:10pm: I think it is misleading that you call yourself an Imam in front of the general public Matty, are you a wisk? I demand to know. WE, the general public have a right to know. If you are not then how dare you mislead us like that??
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Mattywisk

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #66 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:23pm

Same-sex sexual intercourse is legal in five Muslim-majority nations (Albania, Turkey, Bahrain, Jordan, and Mali). In Albania there have been discussions about legalizing same-sex marriage. Homosexual relations between females is legal in Kuwait (but homosexual acts between males are illegal). Lebanon has had recent internal efforts to legalize homosexuality.

Islam may become the religion of choice for homosexuals yet.

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Mattywisk

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #67 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:22pm:

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 8:10pm:

I think it is misleading that you call yourself an Imam in front of the general public

Matty, are you a wisk?

I demand to know. *WE*, the general public have a right to know. If you are not then how dare you mislead us like that??

What are you babbling an about ?

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 138919 Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #68 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:25pm Mattywisk wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:23pm: Same-sex sexual intercourse is legal in five Muslim-majority nations (Albania, Turkey, Bahrain, Jordan, and Mali). All you have to do now is decide which one of those countries you want to live in. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Bon voyage, matty.
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96347	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #69 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:26pm freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:20pm: I'm a live and let live kind of person. I see. Have you gone back to being the 2007 FD? The 2014 FD couldn’t possibly say that. It goes against everything his religion espouses.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #70 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:57pm

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:08pm:

Muhammad himself had stated, “If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.”[5] He even went so far as to condemn the “appearance” of homosexuality, when he cursed effeminate men and masculine women and ordered his followers to "Turn them out of your houses."[6] This ruling on homosexuals was naturally adopted by his later successors.

1. Lot is an interesting one. Islamic LGBT activist argue that the real sins of Lot's people was not the act of sodomy itself. Lets take just one description taken from a wiki article to examine this point:

The people of Sodom and Gomorrah, the twin cities which Lot was sent to with God's message, transgressed consciously against the bounds of God. Their avarice led to inhospitality and robbery, which in turn led to the humiliation of strangers by mistreatment and rape. It was their abominable sin of homosexuality which was seen as symptomatic of their attitudes

Taking away, of course, the part about "It was their abominable sin of homosexuality..." - and it can be seen how these activists make their case. The people of Lot "consciously transgressed" their religion, which led to a general display of immorality: inhospitality, robbery, rape etc. It is in this context, and *ONLY* this context that the act of sodomy is condemned - not, so the argument goes, the act of sodomy per se - where it can presumably be performed by righteous, God-fearing people in a proper, loving relationship (ie not lust).

2. The second point in your quote refers to men acting effeminately, and women acting masculine - which has nothing to do with homosexuality. The author is completely wrong to label this as the "appearance of homosexuality".

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mattywisk

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #71 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 10:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:57pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:08pm:

Muhammad himself had stated, “If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.”[5] He even went so far as to condemn the “appearance” of homosexuality, when he cursed effeminate men and masculine women and ordered his followers to "Turn them out of your houses."[6] This ruling on homosexuals was naturally adopted by his later successors.

1. Lot is an interesting one. Islamic LGBT activist argue that the real sins of Lot's people was not the act of sodomy itself. Lets take just one description taken from a wiki article to examine this point:

The people of Sodom and Gomorrah, the twin cities which Lot was sent to with God's message, transgressed consciously against the bounds of God. Their avarice led to inhospitality and robbery, which in turn led to the humiliation of strangers by mistreatment and rape. It was their abominable sin of homosexuality which was seen as symptomatic of their attitudes

Taking away, of course, the part about "It was their abominable sin of homosexuality..." - and it can be seen how these activists make their case. The people of Lot "consciously transgressed" their religion, which led to a general display of immorality: inhospitality, robbery, rape etc. It is in this context, and *ONLY* this context that the act of sodomy is condemned - not, so the argument goes, the act of sodomy per se - where it can presumably be performed by righteous, God-fearing people in a proper, loving relationship (ie not lust).

2. The second point in your quote refers to men acting effeminately, and women acting masculine - which has nothing to do with homosexuality. The author is completely wrong to label this as the "appearance of homosexuality".

"So the argument goes, the act of sodomy per se - where it can presumably be performed by righteous, God-fearing people in a proper, loving relationship (ie not lust)."

Talk about a long stretch of a presumption Grin

That's bloody hilarious I reckon any local mosque would stone you for that one, all sects Grin

My goodness that's how the gay muslims get around it Grin

That's pure Gold

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Mattywisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1373 Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #72 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 10:24pm I think we need to think a name up for your particular strand if Islam Gandalf since you agreed that you make it up as you go. Cant use Shiite or Sunni, maybe Shady or OTF (On The Fly) Islam perhaps ?
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Mattywisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1373 Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #73 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 10:26pm Sodomislam
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it_is_the_light Gold Member Offline Christ Light Posts: 41434 The Pyramid of LIGHT Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #74 - Jun 10^th, 2014 at 8:09am Mattywisk wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 10:26pm: Sodomislam stone him ! just jokes ! forgiven - : ) = namaste
Back to top	ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : ) ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯ IP Logged