Australian Politics Forum - The "core tenets" of Islam

freediver

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The "core tenets" of Islam
Jun 8^th, 2014 at 12:08pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 10:06pm:

If we were all honest here we would admit that every single one of us - you, me, Abu, Yadda - everyone - approaches the topic of islam with certain preconceived notions and perspectives. For my part, I had enough knowledge about islam to be satisfied enough about Islam's overall theme before I started digging deep into the nitty gritty of it. Knowing that islam is ultimately about all the main universal values like justice, acceptance, respect, human rights etc, I have absolutely no problem admitting that I study Quranic verses with this preconceived view in mind.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 10:06pm:

Nonsense. No one, except maybe a tiny handful of oddball intellectuals with too much time on their hands, embraces islam (or dare I say any other text-based religion) only after they have conducted a thorough analysis of all the relevant religious texts. You learn the core tenets of the religion which will give you the general gist of it and accept that the "details" will reaffirm your initial understandings. Thats how virtually every new convert to any religion comes to embrace that religion.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 10:54pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 10:16pm:

Where did you get those core tenets from?

ask an imam, google it, read a flier at the local mosque.... take your pick. This is how all religious work in the real world FD. Do you seriously think that converts to islam actually go and study the entire quran and 4000 odd ahadeeth as a necessary step before they decide to embrace islam?

I am asking you Gandalf. Are you an Imam or not?

Justice and respect make sense to me, as Islam is obviously very legalistic and has a focus on reputation or 'face'. These have been discussed here are lot previously.

I am particularly interested in how acceptance and human rights form core tenets of Islam. By "etc", did you mean any other ones that might otherwise fall under the banner of wishy washy western liberal morals?

This is your chance to correct everyone's misconceptions about Islam.

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« Last Edit: Jun 8^th, 2014 at 7:52pm by polite_gandalf »

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polite_gandalf

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The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #1 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 4:36pm

No amount of smart arsery is going to change the fact that almost every convert to any religion decide to embrace that religion because of what they understand to be the core tenets of it - and this is learned without conducting any sort of in-depth analysis of the religious texts.

Your refusal to even acknowledge the following valid point renders this thread as high farce:

Quote:

Do you seriously think that converts to islam actually go and study the entire quran and 4000 odd ahadeeth as a necessary step before they decide to embrace islam?

Also, title edited to decrease the chances of this becoming an ad-hom sh*t fest.

Moving forward, personalised threads will no longer be allowed

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49337 At my desk.	Re: Gandalf's "core tenets" of Islam Reply #2 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 6:04pm Are you suggesting that all the other Muslims will agree with you about acceptance and human rights being core tenets of Islam? What other "main universal values" also happen to be core tenets of Islam? Where do these core tenets come from?
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40764 Gender:	Re: Gandalf's "core tenets" of Islam Reply #3 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 6:45pm There are few converts to islam. Most are born into it, and as in cults, have no say in the matter. many more leave islam than join it.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Gandalf's "core tenets" of Islam Reply #4 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 7:51pm FD if you don't want me to moderate this forum then just remove my access. If not, have the courtesy to respect my moderating decisions.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49337 At my desk.	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #5 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:14pm It wasn't me. I think you edited the title of your response, but not the original post. Anyway, about those core tenets....
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #6 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:15pm In that case I apologise.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #7 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:16pm freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:14pm: Anyway, about those core tenets.... I refer you to reply#1
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49337 At my desk.	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #8 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:02pm You are being an evasive Muslim Gandalf.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #9 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:10pm Can I hate and despise Islam as an ideology, a cult, a toxic blight - or should I despise it only privately but pretend, publicly, to take it seriously?
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Mattywisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1373 Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #10 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:18pm Soren wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:10pm: Can I hate and despise Islam as an ideology, a cult, a toxic blight - or should I despise it only privately but pretend, publicly, to take it seriously? No any of those are fine.
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Mattywisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1373 Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #11 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:20pm freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:02pm: You are being an evasive Muslim Gandalf. Don't hold ya breath I have had an entire BBQ and am still waiting for the Grand Mufti's response. I uncovered and cooked my meat before eating however.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #12 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 11:49pm

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:02pm:

You are being an evasive Muslim Gandalf.

I don't even know what I'm supposed to be evading.

Your OP is, as always, a rambling muddle of disjointed quotes and questions that make no sense at all.

From what I can decipher from your ramblings, your "argument" seems to be along the lines of "lets have a laugh at gandalf thinking islamic core tenets have anything to do with universal human values - because I know they are about justifying aggression and presenting a false image"

Where you fall down though is in your open admission that you don't know the first thing about islamic doctrine except what you think two guys on this forum said about it - and your seeming pride in not wanting to even attempt to understand islam outside this circle of two people.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mattywisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1373 Gender:	Re: The "core tenets" of Islam Reply #13 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 12:05am The fruits of Islam are plain for all to see, I am not quite sure why anyone would take it seriously as something from a god. Clearly it seems to be man made. Just pagan practices re-badged by one man who is probably laughing in his grave.
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wally1

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Re: The "core tenets" of Islam
Reply #14 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 7:35am

Soren wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:10pm:

Can I hate and despise Islam as an ideology, a cult, a toxic blight - or should I despise it only privately but pretend, publicly, to take it seriously?

Isnt it evident your full of hate?

or That you complain that your sick about hearing about muslims but run to the ozpolitics islam section.

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