Australian Politics Forum - Is this Halal?

Adamant

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Is this Halal?
Jun 11^th, 2014 at 7:49pm

Gandalf do you believe that Halal slaughter is "Humane" or purely ritualistic slaughter in the name of a sick and perverse bedouin?

For instance, should you set fire to a donkey before you kill it "Humanely"

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/jihadis-display-power-of-islam...

Is it Halal to stab a beast in the eye Before you hack its head off?

Gaza cattle torture 'worst case of animal cruelty' in history.

Do you think the pictures/ film is taken "out of context".

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.563151

Maybe Government could pass laws so that a 2% minority are able to inflict it on the rest of Australian society whilst muslims get their rocks off on this despicable form of depravity?

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« Last Edit: Jun 12^th, 2014 at 3:27pm by polite_gandalf »

In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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Mattywisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1373 Gender:	Re: Is this Halal Reply #1 - Jun 11^th, 2014 at 7:51pm Yes no surprises there. More lies from the islam cult obviously. The love of islam , and these nuts think we run around with out eyes closed. Sick mothers.
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wally1

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Re: Is this Halal
Reply #2 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 2:49pm

Adamant wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 7:49pm:

Gandalf do you believe that Halal slaughter is "Humane" or purely ritualistic slaughter in the name of a sick and perverse bedouin?

For instance, should you set fire to a donkey before you kill it "Humanely"

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/jihadis-display-power-of-islam...

Is it Halal to stab a beast in the eye Before you hack its head off?

Gaza cattle torture 'worst case of animal cruelty' in history.

Do you think the pictures/ film is taken "out of context".

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.563151

Maybe Government could pass laws so that a 2% minority are able to inflict it on the rest of Australian society whilst muslims get their rocks off on this despicable form of depravity?

Lets go back say 2000 years adamant, how do you think we should have slaughtered animals to eat?

No stun guns, or abbotiors then for example.

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Karnal

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Re: Is this Halal
Reply #3 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 3:22pm

wally1 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 2:49pm:

Adamant wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 7:49pm:

Gandalf do you believe that Halal slaughter is "Humane" or purely ritualistic slaughter in the name of a sick and perverse bedouin?

For instance, should you set fire to a donkey before you kill it "Humanely"

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/jihadis-display-power-of-islam...

Is it Halal to stab a beast in the eye Before you hack its head off?

Gaza cattle torture 'worst case of animal cruelty' in history.

Do you think the pictures/ film is taken "out of context".

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.563151

Maybe Government could pass laws so that a 2% minority are able to inflict it on the rest of Australian society whilst muslims get their rocks off on this despicable form of depravity?

Lets go back say 2000 years adamant, how do you think we should have slaughtered animals to eat?

No stun guns, or abbotiors then for example.

Adamant's going to tell you it's not 2000 years ago, and we have the technology to kill animals mercifully.

Adamant's going to tell you this is the very problem with Islam: the inability to adapt to the modern world, even when such adaptation supports the entire point of the Halal slaughter method and the minimization of cruelty.

Adamant's going to tell you that such cruelty as described above is unbelievably barbaric and completely unnecessary.

What Adamant won't tell you, however, is that such slaughter methods are illegal in Australia, no matter what your religion is. And no Muslims are campaigning to introduce crueler slaughter methods, using Halal techniques or not.

Adamant will also ignore the fact that local law trumps any form of Muslim law or dietry edicts. The Koran instructs Muslims to obey the law of the land and eat non-Halal food when Halal is not available.

Not that most Muslims are strict with Halal food, just as few Jews are religious with Kosher products. Mind you, pork is not too popular among the Muslims and Jews I've known.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Is this Halal? Reply #4 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 3:30pm gee K - I think you give adamant way too much credit.
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wally1

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Re: Is this Halal
Reply #5 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 3:38pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 3:22pm:

wally1 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 2:49pm:

Adamant wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 7:49pm:

Gandalf do you believe that Halal slaughter is "Humane" or purely ritualistic slaughter in the name of a sick and perverse bedouin?

For instance, should you set fire to a donkey before you kill it "Humanely"

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/jihadis-display-power-of-islam...

Is it Halal to stab a beast in the eye Before you hack its head off?

Gaza cattle torture 'worst case of animal cruelty' in history.

Do you think the pictures/ film is taken "out of context".

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.563151

Maybe Government could pass laws so that a 2% minority are able to inflict it on the rest of Australian society whilst muslims get their rocks off on this despicable form of depravity?

Lets go back say 2000 years adamant, how do you think we should have slaughtered animals to eat?

No stun guns, or abbotiors then for example.

Adamant's going to tell you it's not 2000 years ago, and we have the technology to kill animals mercifully.

Adamant's going to tell you this is the very problem with Islam: the inability to adapt to the modern world, even when such adaptation supports the entire point of the Halal slaughter method and the minimization of cruelty.

Adamant's going to tell you that such cruelty as described above is unbelievably barbaric and completely unnecessary.

What Adamant won't tell you, however, is that such slaughter methods are illegal in Australia, no matter what your religion is. And no Muslims are campaigning to introduce crueler slaughter methods, using Halal techniques or not.

Adamant will also ignore the fact that local law trumps any form of Muslim law or dietry edicts. The Koran instructs Muslims to obey the law of the land and eat non-Halal food when Halal is not available.

Not that most Muslims are strict with Halal food, just as few Jews are religious with Kosher products. Mind you, pork is not too popular among the Muslims and Jews I've known.

I know most of the people here are anti throat slaughtering of animals but some for the techniques used these days could be classified as inhumane.

For example you got the percussion stunning where you shoot a bolt into the animals brain which concusses the animal and cause raised intracranial bleeding.

Isnt that inhuman?

Then you got electric stunning, im sure no animal would want to die a painful death with its body shaking and body trembling, and the animal struggling to stay alive.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Is this Halal?
Reply #6 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 4:21pm

There are many horror stories about chicken abbattoirs.

They hang them upside down and dunk their heads in the electrified water. This supposedly stuns them before they kill them. However countless numbers either lift their heads so they don't get electricuted, or are not stunned by the water. For these chickens, since they are still conscious, they flap around as they pass through an automatic throat cutter. Consequently, they are horribly mamed by the blade, and sometimes not killed - and those who are not, are still conscious when they are thrown into the scalding water for defeathering

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Is this Halal?
Reply #7 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 5:16pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 4:21pm:

There are many horror stories about chicken abbattoirs.

They hang them upside down and dunk their heads in the electrified water. This supposedly stuns them before they kill them. However countless numbers either lift their heads so they don't get electricuted, or are not stunned by the water. For these chickens, since they are still conscious, they flap around as they pass through an automatic throat cutter. Consequently, they are horribly mamed by the blade, and sometimes not killed - and those who are not, are still conscious when they are thrown into the scalding water for defeathering

Exactly. No matter how you look at it, ALL meat production is inhumane.

I'm a vegetarian, but I tolerate meat-eaters rather than calling for them to be banned or refused entry to Australia.

Spineless apologetics, innit.

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Karnal

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Re: Is this Halal
Reply #8 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 5:24pm

wally1 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 3:38pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 3:22pm:

wally1 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 2:49pm:

Adamant wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 7:49pm:

Gandalf do you believe that Halal slaughter is "Humane" or purely ritualistic slaughter in the name of a sick and perverse bedouin?

For instance, should you set fire to a donkey before you kill it "Humanely"

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/jihadis-display-power-of-islam...

Is it Halal to stab a beast in the eye Before you hack its head off?

Gaza cattle torture 'worst case of animal cruelty' in history.

Do you think the pictures/ film is taken "out of context".

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.563151

Maybe Government could pass laws so that a 2% minority are able to inflict it on the rest of Australian society whilst muslims get their rocks off on this despicable form of depravity?

Lets go back say 2000 years adamant, how do you think we should have slaughtered animals to eat?

No stun guns, or abbotiors then for example.

Adamant's going to tell you it's not 2000 years ago, and we have the technology to kill animals mercifully.

Adamant's going to tell you this is the very problem with Islam: the inability to adapt to the modern world, even when such adaptation supports the entire point of the Halal slaughter method and the minimization of cruelty.

Adamant's going to tell you that such cruelty as described above is unbelievably barbaric and completely unnecessary.

What Adamant won't tell you, however, is that such slaughter methods are illegal in Australia, no matter what your religion is. And no Muslims are campaigning to introduce crueler slaughter methods, using Halal techniques or not.

Adamant will also ignore the fact that local law trumps any form of Muslim law or dietry edicts. The Koran instructs Muslims to obey the law of the land and eat non-Halal food when Halal is not available.

Not that most Muslims are strict with Halal food, just as few Jews are religious with Kosher products. Mind you, pork is not too popular among the Muslims and Jews I've known.

I know most of the people here are anti throat slaughtering of animals but some for the techniques used these days could be classified as inhumane.

For example you got the percussion stunning where you shoot a bolt into the animals brain which concusses the animal and cause raised intracranial bleeding.

Isnt that inhuman?

Then you got electric stunning, im sure no animal would want to die a painful death with its body shaking and body trembling, and the animal struggling to stay alive.

True. I imagine the bolt technique is the most painless, but who knows?

A number of Australian abatoirs have been closed down for cruelty. That, however, is the difference between our superior white slaughter standards and the developing world. It might not be much comfort for the animals themselves, but we actually have standards.

The Chinese are amazingly cruel. Skinning a snake alive and taking out its gall bladder is unbelievable. All this, just to get twenty dollars worth of snake blood to supposedly give you a harder hard-on.

The introduction of a beef diet to China is one of the biggest threats to food security and global warming. I'm not sure of their slaughter standards, but just to be on the safe side, I blame Islam.

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Adamant Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1892 Brisbane	Re: Is this Halal? Reply #9 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 7:43pm Well done Gandalf, no answer as usual, barring your tame turd charmer!
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Is this Halal? Reply #10 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 9:12pm answer what adamant? You didn't exactly frame the OP as if you wanted a serious response.
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BlindFreddy

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Re: Is this Halal?
Reply #11 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 10:47am

Karnal wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 3:22pm:

What Adamant won't tell you, however, is that such slaughter methods are illegal in Australia, no matter what your religion is. And no Muslims are campaigning to introduce crueler slaughter methods, using Halal techniques or not.

Adamant will also ignore the fact that local law trumps any form of Muslim law or dietry edicts. The Koran instructs Muslims to obey the law of the land and eat non-Halal food when Halal is not available.

Not that most Muslims are strict with Halal food, just as few Jews are religious with Kosher products. Mind you, pork is not too popular among the Muslims and Jews I've known.

Hi Karnal / Gandalf

The way I read that post is that you are to eat non-halal food when halal isn't available. Sounds sensible to me. Now, as far as what makes meat halal, are any of the methods Adamant speaks of mentioned in the Koran? What does it say about preparing food to be halal?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Is this Halal?
Reply #12 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 11:54am

BlindFreddy wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 10:47am:

What does it say about preparing food to be halal?

It is very clear from both the quran and ahadith about the purpose of halal slaughter in terms of humaneness:

Quote:

Forbidden to you are Maytah (carrion or dead animal, animal not slaughtered with Tasmiyah i.e. reciting 'Bismillahi Allahu Akbar', flowing blood, the flesh of swine, and that slaughter on which was invoked name other than Allah, as well as the (animal) killed by strangulation or beaten to death with violent blow or falling (from a height) to its death or gored to death (through fighting) or by falling to a predator (and about to be consumed) -- unless you are able to slaughter in the name of Allah (swt) and carry out the sacrifice before it dies)…. (5:3)

and of the specific method of slaughter:

Quote:

“If the killing tool causes the blood to gush out, and the name of Allah is mentioned, then eat (of the slaughtered animal), but do not use a nail (claw) or a tooth.” (Sahih al-Bukhari)

Quote:

“Whatever cuts the jugular veins, then (after cutting it) eat the animal.” (Muwatta of Imam Malik, 2/489)

Quote:

“The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) prohibited the Sharita of Shaytan. It is an animal which is slaughtered by cutting it open and the veins are not cut, and it is then left to die.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)

From the various ahadith we see a clear commonality: the throat must be cut with a very sharp instrument, must severe the jugular vein, and must cause the blood to "gush". Recent studies have demonstrated that cutting the jugular vein with a proper incision using a sharp blade so as to cause a rapid flow of blood, results in a very rapid loss of consciousness and a relatively humane death.

We then see how the quranic verse quoted above fits into this theme: comsumption of animals that have been beaten, strangled, dropped from a great height etc is forbidden. This makes sense from an animal welfare point of view, as all these sorts of deaths are cruel and painful. Islam is making it very clear that the only meat available for lawful consumption, is that which has been humanely slaughtered.

And to answer adamant - yes the cruel hypocricy of some muslim slaughterers is no surprise and no revelation.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Is this Halal? Reply #13 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:36pm Quote: Recent studies have demonstrated that cutting the jugular vein with a proper incision using a sharp blade so as to cause a rapid flow of blood, results in a very rapid loss of consciousness and a relatively humane death. Let me guess, a Saudi University? The same one doing the camel urine studies?
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BlindFreddy

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Re: Is this Halal?
Reply #14 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:02pm

freediver wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:36pm:

The same one doing the camel urine studies?

Say what?!

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 11:54am:

clear commonality: the throat must be cut with a very sharp instrument, must severe the jugular vein, and must cause the blood to "gush".

Thank you for your answer.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 11:54am:

And to answer adamant - yes the cruel hypocricy of some muslim slaughterers is no surprise and no revelation.

And thanks for not dancing about the issue. Yes, the same could be said for some people, whatever their religious persuasion.

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