freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 5:04pm:


Oh, I see now. You’re saying I’m trying to censor your eyewitness accounts of barbarous attrocities and stop you getting the message out to the rest of the world.

Well, why didn’t you just come out and say? Really, FD, you’re too polite. Sometimes you need to just spiit it out, you know.

Yes, I can see how you’d think that. When Sprint told fibs about things G hadn’t said, I probably shouldn’t have opened my big mouth. After all, they’re all Muslims. And when Y told a few white lies about Muslims in non-Muslim countries (like the ones in my street), I should have just kept quiet and not put myself out on a limb like that - quite rude of me. After all, Y’s only interested in preventing me from being beheaded. He might have even saved my life. Then there’s Herbie and the Muslim library book scam - who was I trying to fool there? If Herbie believes it, that’s his right in a Freee society. Well, he later admitted he didn’t believe it, but he wanted to make us believe it so badly it was clearly important to him. Then there’s Halal and underage marriage and Muslim grooming gangs and Taqqiya and all that other sordid business I should have kept quiet about, I can see how it’s important that this is all expressed even if it’s not, you know, completely true.

That’s our right in a Freee society, isn’t it? If we want to make things up about others and have a bit of a chuckle, it’s not like we’re actually bothering anyone else. And anyway, so what if we are?

You mentioned bikies - what am I doing about them?  I don’t actually know any bikies, but I’m sure they’re all terrible people. But that’s hardly the point - I shouldn’t have to know them. Why can’t I just join in like everyone else?

You’re right, FD. This sort of meddling is really going to get me nowhere. At the end of the day, it’s about Freeedom. If people want to have a laugh and tell a few tall tales, who am I to stand in the way? It’s all good fun, and it’s all about Freeedom.

Thanks for helping me to put things into perspective. This apologist racket really has to stop. Facts? Truth? I’ve forgotten the other one, but it’s all ridiculous - completely inconsistent with Freeedom.and demokracy. You let me know if I slip up in future, you just come out and say it. It might even help if you can.make a few amendments to what I’ve said to help me see things more clearly.

Better still, pull a word or two out of a post and seek clarification on it for a few pages. If I don’t respond in time, write me up for evasion - that should help.

The important thing is that we maintain Freeedom at all costs. As we both know, this precious commodity is currently at risk from those who seek to censor us and destroy our marvellous way of life.

Thankfully, FD, we have defenders of liberty like yourself, and we should never forget this.

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First it was facts. Then truth. Then compassion and mutual understanding. Now it is restricted to eyewitness accounts? How will we ever know the extent that the apologists think we should not be free?

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That is how it is supposed to work Karnal. You think someone is bullshitting. You call bullshit on it. You don't invent some new field of thought to deny people the right to criticise what they don't like - then try to pretend Gandhi, Mandella and the great thinkers of the enlightenment all shared your limp wristedness.

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 6:50pm:


Limp wristedness? Now you’re going too far.

If you must know, it got caught in a door.

I can see why you wouldn’t get into Gandhi, Mandella and the great thinkers of the Enlightenment, FD.

You believe in Freeedom.

Excellent. Now that we’re back to civil discourse again, shall we discuss Mandella?

Twenty-odd years in the most repressive of jails, saw close friends murdered by his opponents in front of his eyes, and lost numerous friends and family members on the outside. They beg him to make concessions and get released, and he sticks it out, all the while making friends with his jailers.

When he finally does get out and gets elected president, he doesn’t seek revenge or try to get his own back, he begins a process of reconciliation with the people who took most of his life.

Was this a good thing? South Africans did not get to witness the purification of justice that people saw, for example, at the end of WWII. To this day, blacks are very resentful of whites in South Africa, although for the current generation this resentment has important economic causes.

So I ask you this. Mandella: Freeedom-loving nation builder or limp-wristed spineless apologist?

I’ll give your reply a good read, FD.

I see. If you don’t mind me saying, FD, you’re keeping your cards pretty close to your chest here.

Do you mind if I ask why you started a thread to discuss apologist-approved criticism? You don’t seem to have too much to say.

I challenge you to find a view from any of them - Gandhi, Mandella, or any of the great enlightenment thinkers, that comes close to this level of spinelessness:

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freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 8:49pm:




It's intellectual cowardice of the most profound kind.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:16pm:


The good thing about Herbie is I can say whatever I like and he’s not allowed to reply.

I’m on Herbie’s "ignore list" - presumably a pad Herbie keeps with the used tissues next to his bed.

Now that’s Freeedom.