Australian Politics Forum - apologist-approved criticsm

freediver

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #75 - Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:48pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:29pm:

Ah - FD. You haven’t read what Gandhi had to say on truth force, an idea influenced by the Islamic understanding of jihad.

Gandhi and Mandela both believed in holding your tongue, in practicing patience, and in embracing foes. I’m not sure about Mandela - perhaps you would like to tell me - but Gandhi’s entire career (his "experiments with truth") was about steering a hot-headed Indian lawyer obsessed with white South African racism towards what he became - a man sitting on a racial civil war with millions killed.

And then himself.

Gandhi is the person who, when a Hindu bowed down to him to seek absolution for killing a Muslim child, Gandhi advised him to adopt a Muslim baby and raise him as a pious Muslim.

Satyagrahi is about much more than calling a spade a spade. "Truth" requires a different calling, a completely different mindset. Just think how you’d spend 18 years of your life bringing up a religious Muslim.

Food for thought, eh?

You’re right - I’m no Gandhi. But for me, this is the level of apologism to aspire to.

Being a limp-wristed apologist is not for everyone, FD. If you want to know more, please feel free to ask.

Quote him saying anything about not being free to criticise what you don't like.

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Karnal

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #76 - Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:56pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:10pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 7:24pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

Quote:

I don't hold that people should be free to "criticize" whatever they don't like.

I do.

Me too.

Moi aussi.

The whole process of advancing from the Neanderthal caves to the best that Western civilisation now provides for its members was one long whinge about what people didn't like about other people's behaviour in their social environment.

This still continues today in criticism of our neighbours for one reason and another.

Whinging, bitching, and criticising has been a huge element in shaping the civilisation we know today.

Food for thought, eh?

Does Herbie mean whinging, bitching sand criticizing about things that are actually true - or just any old thing he’s dreamed up to make a point about those he’s read about in the UK Daily Mail?

Or is the UK Daily Mail just a convenient reference point for anyone Herbie feels like criticizing?

Food for thought.

Herbie won’t say, poor thing. He’ll scramble around for the ignore list, cursing, but he won’t say a word.

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Karnal

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #77 - Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:59pm

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:48pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:29pm:

Ah - FD. You haven’t read what Gandhi had to say on truth force, an idea influenced by the Islamic understanding of jihad.

Gandhi and Mandela both believed in holding your tongue, in practicing patience, and in embracing foes. I’m not sure about Mandela - perhaps you would like to tell me - but Gandhi’s entire career (his "experiments with truth") was about steering a hot-headed Indian lawyer obsessed with white South African racism towards what he became - a man sitting on a racial civil war with millions killed.

And then himself.

Gandhi is the person who, when a Hindu bowed down to him to seek absolution for killing a Muslim child, Gandhi advised him to adopt a Muslim baby and raise him as a pious Muslim.

Satyagrahi is about much more than calling a spade a spade. "Truth" requires a different calling, a completely different mindset. Just think how you’d spend 18 years of your life bringing up a religious Muslim.

Food for thought, eh?

You’re right - I’m no Gandhi. But for me, this is the level of apologism to aspire to.

Being a limp-wristed apologist is not for everyone, FD. If you want to know more, please feel free to ask.

Quote him saying anything about not being free to criticise what you don't like.

I can’t, FD. My phone won’t let me do this.

You can though - have a look. I do this all the time when I’m questioning something someone says.

Have a go.

Do you not want to discuss what we’ve been talking about, or are you just clarifying?

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Karnal

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #78 - Jun 15^th, 2014 at 10:11pm

I forgot to say - the Hindu Gandhi counselled had his entire family killed by Muslims before he killed a Muslim boy.

All we’ve experienced is a few "behead all those who insult the prophet" photos.

And yes, this Hindu did bring up a Muslim.boy as his son. Gandhi met him a couple of years later.

Now that’s apologism.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #79 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 3:52pm

Some very limp-wristed apologist rhetoric I'm reading here.

Again ~ assassinating certain media sources as lacking credibility with their news stories because they publish what the apologists would rather not have to defend.

Incidentally, Gandhi was a racist in that he thought African Negroes were shiftless and lazy.

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Datalife

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #80 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 4:11pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 10:11pm:

All we’ve experienced is a few "behead all those who insult the prophet" photos.

Not from lack of trying. It will be a bad day when beardy weardies inspired by the religion of peace let off a bomb or two in Australia. Then you are going to see some prejudice and subsequent radicalisation in a worsening cycle.

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Karnal

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #81 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 4:53pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:16pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 8:49pm:

I challenge you to find a view from any of them - Gandhi, Mandella, or any of the great enlightenment thinkers, that comes close to this level of spinelessness:

Quote:

I don't hold that people should be free to "criticize" whatever they don't like.

It's intellectual cowardice of the most profound kind.

But Herbie, I think having an "ignore list" shows admirable restraint. It's just the sort of apologism I admire.

True, some might see it as a little exclusive and elitist, but to me it shows great self-control.

If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. That's our motto.

Who asassinates media sources? Not us, that's for sure. Unlike the defenders of Freeedom, we believe in that apologist's creed, the AJA Code of Ethics.

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Karnal

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #82 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 4:55pm

Datalife wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 4:11pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 10:11pm:

All we’ve experienced is a few "behead all those who insult the prophet" photos.

Not from lack of trying. It will be a bad day when beardy weardies inspired by the religion of peace let off a bomb or two in Australia. Then you are going to see some prejudice and subsequent radicalisation in a worsening cycle.

Oh, that happened years ago, it's old news. Australia's only terrorist bomb explosion, the Hilton Bombing, was organised by the beardie wierdies in the NSW Police Special Branch.

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« Last Edit: Jun 16^th, 2014 at 5:00pm by Karnal »

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Datalife

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #83 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 5:03pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 4:55pm:

Datalife wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 4:11pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 10:11pm:

All we’ve experienced is a few "behead all those who insult the prophet" photos.

Not from lack of trying. It will be a bad day when beardy weardies inspired by the religion of peace let off a bomb or two in Australia. Then you are going to see some prejudice and subsequent radicalisation in a worsening cycle.

Oh, that happened years ago, it's old news. The Hilton Bombing was organised by the beardie wierdies in the NSW Police Special Branch.

'Twas thinking more of Aussies and westerners targeted at Bali and the plots to commit atrocities at Holsworthy.

No matter, no doubt in my mind you will be apologising and deflecting long after the first bombs go off.

Or do you believe that oz as a developed and liberal western nation would be immune to the beardie weardies? If so you might want to explain the reasoning behind your belief to the security agencies who take beardie weardies pretty seriously.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

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Karnal

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #84 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 5:37pm

Datalife wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 5:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 4:55pm:

Datalife wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 4:11pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 10:11pm:

All we’ve experienced is a few "behead all those who insult the prophet" photos.

Not from lack of trying. It will be a bad day when beardy weardies inspired by the religion of peace let off a bomb or two in Australia. Then you are going to see some prejudice and subsequent radicalisation in a worsening cycle.

Oh, that happened years ago, it's old news. The Hilton Bombing was organised by the beardie wierdies in the NSW Police Special Branch.

'Twas thinking more of Aussies and westerners targeted at Bali and the plots to commit atrocities at Holsworthy.

No matter, no doubt in my mind you will be apologising and deflecting long after the first bombs go off.

Or do you believe that oz as a developed and liberal western nation would be immune to the beardie weardies? If so you might want to explain the reasoning behind your belief to the security agencies who take beardie weardies pretty seriously.

Bali's in Indonesia, Datalife. It's the next country up.

This is a thread about spineless, limp-wristed apologism. Kindly stick to the subject, thanks. FD won't have any off-topic questions. Believe me - I've tried.

The developed and liberal Western nation of Australia has this apologist phenomenon called the rule of law. Unless you're the NSW Special Branch, it applies to all equally - Muselman, Freeedom-supporter, spineless apologist, all.

Back in the 70s, the Special Branch beardie wierdies took the Ananda Marga, a Hindu meditation group, very seriously. They even managed to pin the Hilton Bombing on them.

How times have changed, eh?

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Datalife

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #85 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 6:08pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 5:37pm:

Datalife wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 5:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 4:55pm:

Datalife wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 4:11pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 10:11pm:

All we’ve experienced is a few "behead all those who insult the prophet" photos.

Not from lack of trying. It will be a bad day when beardy weardies inspired by the religion of peace let off a bomb or two in Australia. Then you are going to see some prejudice and subsequent radicalisation in a worsening cycle.

Oh, that happened years ago, it's old news. The Hilton Bombing was organised by the beardie wierdies in the NSW Police Special Branch.

'Twas thinking more of Aussies and westerners targeted at Bali and the plots to commit atrocities at Holsworthy.

No matter, no doubt in my mind you will be apologising and deflecting long after the first bombs go off.

Or do you believe that oz as a developed and liberal western nation would be immune to the beardie weardies? If so you might want to explain the reasoning behind your belief to the security agencies who take beardie weardies pretty seriously.

Bali's in Indonesia, Datalife. It's the next country up.

This is a thread about spineless, limp-wristed apologism. Kindly stick to the subject, thanks. FD won't have any off-topic questions. Believe me - I've tried.

The developed and liberal Western nation of Australia has this apologist phenomenon called the rule of law. Unless you're the NSW Special Branch, it applies to all equally - Muselman, Freeedom-supporter, spineless apologist, all.

Back in the 70s, the Special Branch beardie wierdies took the Ananda Marga, a Hindu meditation group, very seriously. They even managed to pin the Hilton Bombing on them.

How times have changed, eh?

Indeed they have. May have escaped your attention that it is your beloved musselmen these days blowing up planes and trains, hotels and bars, places of worship and each other with monotonous regularity and with particular attention to the liberal west.

Still, you keep worrying about the Lutherans. Or was that just an attempt to deflect?

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Karnal

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #86 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 6:42pm

Datalife wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 6:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 5:37pm:

Datalife wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 5:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 4:55pm:

Datalife wrote on Jun 16^th, 2014 at 4:11pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 10:11pm:

All we’ve experienced is a few "behead all those who insult the prophet" photos.

Not from lack of trying. It will be a bad day when beardy weardies inspired by the religion of peace let off a bomb or two in Australia. Then you are going to see some prejudice and subsequent radicalisation in a worsening cycle.

Oh, that happened years ago, it's old news. The Hilton Bombing was organised by the beardie wierdies in the NSW Police Special Branch.

'Twas thinking more of Aussies and westerners targeted at Bali and the plots to commit atrocities at Holsworthy.

No matter, no doubt in my mind you will be apologising and deflecting long after the first bombs go off.

Or do you believe that oz as a developed and liberal western nation would be immune to the beardie weardies? If so you might want to explain the reasoning behind your belief to the security agencies who take beardie weardies pretty seriously.

Bali's in Indonesia, Datalife. It's the next country up.

This is a thread about spineless, limp-wristed apologism. Kindly stick to the subject, thanks. FD won't have any off-topic questions. Believe me - I've tried.

The developed and liberal Western nation of Australia has this apologist phenomenon called the rule of law. Unless you're the NSW Special Branch, it applies to all equally - Muselman, Freeedom-supporter, spineless apologist, all.

Back in the 70s, the Special Branch beardie wierdies took the Ananda Marga, a Hindu meditation group, very seriously. They even managed to pin the Hilton Bombing on them.

How times have changed, eh?

Indeed they have. May have escaped your attention that it is your beloved musselmen these days blowing up planes and trains, hotels and bars, places of worship and each other with monotonous regularity and with particular attention to the liberal west.

Still, you keep worrying about the Lutherans. Or was that just an attempt to deflect?

Datalife, your deflection of a discussion of an actual terrorist bombing in Australia is admirable. Your switch to a terrorist "plot" that consisted solely of phone calls was an excellent diversion - as was your deflection of Indonesian bombings, although this might upset those on the board who’ve been calling for the Indonesians to be bombed for years.

And we wouldn’t want to do that. After all, no one has the right to not be offended.

Full marks for terrorist apologism there, but you lost a few in the limp-wristed category. Under FD and Herbie’s criteria, the Muslim plotters were just exercising their Freeedom to have a good old whinge, and as we know, speaking out against such behaviour is worse than terrorism itself.

Hopefully FD will be back to steer us in the right direction, but we’ve lost Herbie, I’m afraid.

Herbie’s practicing restraint - a quality I’ve been arguing for throughout the thread. Herbie is that most rare of wise men. He understands that speech is silver, but silence is golden.

We could all learn a lot from Herb, I feel.

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« Last Edit: Jun 16^th, 2014 at 6:51pm by Karnal »

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freediver

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #87 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 6:49pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:48pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 9:29pm:

Ah - FD. You haven’t read what Gandhi had to say on truth force, an idea influenced by the Islamic understanding of jihad.

Gandhi and Mandela both believed in holding your tongue, in practicing patience, and in embracing foes. I’m not sure about Mandela - perhaps you would like to tell me - but Gandhi’s entire career (his "experiments with truth") was about steering a hot-headed Indian lawyer obsessed with white South African racism towards what he became - a man sitting on a racial civil war with millions killed.

And then himself.

Gandhi is the person who, when a Hindu bowed down to him to seek absolution for killing a Muslim child, Gandhi advised him to adopt a Muslim baby and raise him as a pious Muslim.

Satyagrahi is about much more than calling a spade a spade. "Truth" requires a different calling, a completely different mindset. Just think how you’d spend 18 years of your life bringing up a religious Muslim.

Food for thought, eh?

You’re right - I’m no Gandhi. But for me, this is the level of apologism to aspire to.

Being a limp-wristed apologist is not for everyone, FD. If you want to know more, please feel free to ask.

Quote him saying anything about not being free to criticise what you don't like.

I can’t, FD. My phone won’t let me do this.

You can though - have a look. I do this all the time when I’m questioning something someone says.

Have a go.

Do you not want to discuss what we’ve been talking about, or are you just clarifying?

According to Mandela's biography (Long Walk to Freedom), even Gandhi was not entirely opposed to the use of violence. What you are claiming on his behalf simply doesn't make sense, and I can only imagine is some kind of reinterpretation of the type Gandalf is famous for.

I am not going to go looking for something I do not believe exists and is most likely a product of your delusion.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Datalife

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Re: apologist-approved criticsm
Reply #88 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 6:52pm

You maintaining that beardie wierdies inspired by the religion of peace are not going to set off bombs? You that confident that attention should be instead be focused on Lutherans? We should be complacent?

Or are you just running interference, throwing out deflections and attempting to turn the subject to anything other than Islamic terrorism and acts of buggerbuggery inspired by the religion of peace?

Maybe the whole issue has passed you by, so focused you are on the threat posed by Lutherans.

Must be exhausting being an apologist and averting your eyes continually from forests and focusing instead on twigs. Roll Eyes

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96744	Re: apologist-approved criticsm Reply #89 - Jun 16^th, 2014 at 6:56pm You think I make up words like Satyagraha? I’m not that creative, FD. Google: Taqqiya.
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