Australian Politics Forum - Christian apologism

Karnal

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Christian apologism
Jun 20^th, 2014 at 3:44pm

Take one.

Christians don't believe in the Old Testament.

moses wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 8:13pm:

Quote:

moses wrote:
People of all persuasions (religious, pagan, agnostic, atheist) commit murder.

What the muslim apologists are trying to do is hide the truth about the teachings of Christ, verses the teachings of muhammad.

So what did each of them have to say regarding revenge / honour killings of women?

From the New Testament and the Word of Christ:
John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
John 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
John 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her

Christ did not preach honour killing of women, He preached forgiveness and compassion.

Then we have from the qur'an and the teachings of muhammad:
qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

muhammad and the quran say to kill them

Karnal wrote: Quote:

Yeah? Two can play the apology game.

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

Is honesty simply not part of the muslim apologist's tool kit Karnal?

Why are you dishonestly quoting the Old Testament?

My statement was a comparison of the teachings of Jesus versus the teachings of muhammad, why are you trying to dodge the issue by referring to O.T.?

Since you are so dishonest, once again for your benefit:

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

So I'll state again:

Christ did not preach honour killing of women, He preached forgiveness and compassion.

muhammad and the quran say to kill them

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Karnal

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Re: Christian apologism
Reply #1 - Jun 20^th, 2014 at 3:47pm

Take two.

Okay, they do believe in the Old Testament, but at least they have a New Testament.

moses wrote on Jun 19^th, 2014 at 4:51pm:

At least Christians have a New Testament and the teachings of Christ, as an integral part of their doctrine.

Now to use the apologist excuse: **They claim they are Christians. They claim they are following their religious beliefs. Who are we to deny their beliefs in their religion? **

The real question is do muslim apologists believe that muslims who commit murder, rape and torture, who practice honour killings, who oppress and denigrate non muslims, are genuine muslims?

They believe they are muslims, they follow the commands of allah, they follow the teachings of muhammad, they follow to the letter the verses in the qur'an and hadi'th, which command them to commit atrocities in the name of islam.

So I take it that muslim apologists accept wholeheartedly these degenerate people as true and genuine muslims, after all there is no grey area, they have not stepped one inch outside of the doctrinal guidelines ordained for them by allah, muhammad. islam, qur'an

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Karnal

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Re: Christian apologism
Reply #2 - Jun 20^th, 2014 at 3:50pm

Take three.

Christians have a New and Old Testament, but if a Christian sins, they're no longer Christians.

moses wrote on Jun 19^th, 2014 at 5:55pm:

Hot Breath wrote:
Quote:

Immaterial. We are discussing CHRISTIANS who commit so-called "Honour" Killings. They justify it often with religious teachings. Do they believe they are being real Christians when they commit these crimes? Yes, they do so no matter how much you deny them, they are still Christians!

Christian apologists though, instead of owning up to the inspirations for their fellow Christian criminals try and disown them at the first chance!

Factual evidence shows that these killers are indeed rejected for their actions .

As I see it the Word of Christ would be the final adjudicator on the validity of their claims to Christianity.

So what does Christian doctrine say?

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The Christian doctrine rejects workers of iniquity, seems pretty clear to me.

Unless you can show that you have greater authority than the Word of Christ in doctrinal matters, I'll go with the literal evidence of the N.T.

Oh by the way do you accept the muslim murderer, rapist, torturer as the true muslim?

He believes he is, the commands of allah, teachings of muhammad, verses in qur'an and islamic doctrine all say he is the true muslim.

What do you say?

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Karnal

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Re: Christian apologism
Reply #3 - Jun 20^th, 2014 at 3:53pm

Take four.

They may or may not be officially-approved Christians, but they can be forgiven by God.

moses wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 3:22pm:

Karnal wrote: Quote:

Why does the church recruit in places like jails?

I believe that Christian doctrine says a repenting sinner can be forgiven.

However you and the other apologists are not talking about repenting sinners are you?

You are trying to lie and say that someone who has willfully committed an atrocious sin in direct contravention of the Word of Christ, is a Christian simply because he says he is.

Truth and fact on one side.

Lies and deceit on the other (the one the muslim apologist takes) Karnal

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Karnal

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Re: Christian apologism
Reply #4 - Jun 20^th, 2014 at 4:00pm

Take five.

All that really matters is that the Muslims are worse.

moses wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 3:29pm:

Hot Breath wrote: Quote:

Unless of course its a Muslim telling it, right Moses?

There's two sides to every story.

There are verifiable facts, the truth on one side.

There is the excuse, the lies and deception on the other.

I haven't seen any verifiable facts or truth from muslim apologists so far

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Mattywisk

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Re: Christian apologism
Reply #5 - Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:18pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 4:00pm:

Take five.

All that really matters is that the Muslims are worse.

The muslimes are worse because the book they made up condones violence in current day context.
Get a few backward arabs and you have your splinter cell. Reach 10% of the muslim moderates
population as extremists and you can control the whole lot. Not much comparison to christians
their according to christian doctrine. But hey, what can I say, a cult is a cult, and islam is just a cult.
And pretend muslims on the internet are just that, pretend muslims.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Christian apologism
Reply #6 - Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:34pm

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:18pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 4:00pm:

Take five.

All that really matters is that the Muslims are worse.

The muslimes are worse because the book they made up condones violence in current day context.

Christians utilise their book to condone violence in current day context as well. Roll Eyes

Its a shame that your own eyes are so blinkered by your religious beliefs. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Mattywisk

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Re: Christian apologism
Reply #7 - Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:41pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:18pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 4:00pm:

Take five.

All that really matters is that the Muslims are worse.

The muslimes are worse because the book they made up condones violence in current day context.

Christians utilise their book to condone violence in current day context as well. Roll Eyes

Its a shame that your own eyes are so blinkered by your religious beliefs. Roll Eyes

Really which ones ? Roll Eyes

and yet here you are say peoples eyes are blinkered because they either know the tales that you believe to be true with YOUR blinkered eyes are utter rubbish or they don't share your blinkered viewpoint.

Do grow up and know what you are talking about before posting next time. Roll Eyes

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Karnal

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Re: Christian apologism
Reply #8 - Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:45pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:18pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 4:00pm:

Take five.

All that really matters is that the Muslims are worse.

The muslimes are worse because the book they made up condones violence in current day context.

Christians utilise their book to condone violence in current day context as well. Roll Eyes

Its a shame that your own eyes are so blinkered by your religious beliefs. Roll Eyes

Moses is no Christian, dear. His posts are devoid of anything resembling Christianity.

He does have a strangely Old Testament name though. I wonder if he’s one of G_d’s chosen people.

Alas, we’ll never know. One thing we do know though - he’s not adverse to condoning a little fire and brimstone.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Christian apologism
Reply #9 - Jun 21^st, 2014 at 12:20am

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:18pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 4:00pm:

Take five.

All that really matters is that the Muslims are worse.

The muslimes are worse because the book they made up condones violence in current day context.

Christians utilise their book to condone violence in current day context as well. Roll Eyes

Its a shame that your own eyes are so blinkered by your religious beliefs. Roll Eyes

Really which ones ? Roll Eyes

Your willingness to jettison any Christians who commit atrocities in the name of their religion?

Your willingness to jettison the very foundations of your own religion when it is used to justify the atrocities committed by your co-religionists?

Quote:

and yet here you are say peoples eyes are blinkered because they either know the tales that you believe to be true with YOUR blinkered eyes are utter rubbish or they don't share your blinkered viewpoint.

I have no blinkers on. I know there are good and bad Christians, just as there are good and bad Muslims or members of any other religion you'd care to name.

Quote:

Do grow up and know what you are talking about before posting next time. Roll Eyes

Child, I know far more than you ever will and understand even more. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Christian apologism
Reply #10 - Jun 21^st, 2014 at 1:37am

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

Mattywisk wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 8:18pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 20^th, 2014 at 4:00pm:

Take five.

All that really matters is that the Muslims are worse.

The muslimes are worse because the book they made up condones violence in current day context.

Christians utilise their book to condone violence in current day context as well. Roll Eyes

Its a shame that your own eyes are so blinkered by your religious beliefs. Roll Eyes

brian ross the complete liar - no Christians don't use the bible to condone violence.
A few nutters might try.
What did they quote, by the way ?

brian - the complete liar

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