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muslim pioneers? (Read 9212 times)
Grand Duke Imam Mahdi
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #30 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 6:13pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 4:09pm:
Grand Duke Imam Mahdi wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 12:59am:
Ah yes yea old Afghan cameleers rolled out for islam.   Roll Eyes

The Abo's never called Australia Australia.

Countries have been fought over and won for centuries upon centuries, if we are going to harp on about traditional owners what a crock. No one knows if a race existed before abo's at all. It means diddly squat. Even if there was none it doesn't make them owners of anything. Just like being the owners of Ayers Rock is a crock.

The bottom line is displacing , annihilating through war or overrunning a country has been the norm in every country on the earth for centuries. Yet here we are still whining over aboriginals. Didn't K Dudd say he was sorry on behalf of how many generations of Labor and Greens supporters.   Grin .

For goodness sakes. They lost, we built Australia, they still live out in the bush, we still give handouts. What else is in the pipeline ?


Well, you do enjoy displaying your ignorance and racism, now don't you, Mahdi.  Your post is riddled with both and shows a profound misunderstanding of Australia's history and present day society.  I'd suggest you join Lionel back in the classroom...   Roll Eyes


I am not racist nor ignorant. I' say you have a few issues you need to work out like understanding the meanings of ignorant and what a racist is.

I suggest you come back here when you grow up, a few adults are speaking.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about,  nor the capacity to understand posts you don't approve of. I would suggest controlling your angst and posting with maturity when you get some.
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Air is provided by God, not the muslim fictitious one, enjoy it while you can.
 
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #31 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 6:34pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 4:06pm:
... You appear to have a profound misunderstanding of what Terra Nullius was...   


Back in the 'good old days'?      

Empty? No-one home?

These days?

These days even Australians have become ethnic, or so we're told. Though, still we obstinately remain a nation of mongrels. As such, we're protective of our yard.

Yet you find fault with such an attitude when it's the most natural in the world.




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Brian Ross
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #32 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 6:55pm
 
Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 6:34pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 4:06pm:
... You appear to have a profound misunderstanding of what Terra Nullius was...   


Back in the 'good old days'?      

Empty? No-one home?


Nope.  Try again.  It's all about ownership, Lionel.   Roll Eyes

Migration and invasion are different to claiming Terra Nullius

Quote:
These days?

These days even Australians have become ethnic, or so we're told.


Australian has always been an ethnicity and a nationality (after 1901), Lionel.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Though, still we obstinately remain a nation of mongrels. As such, we're protective of our yard.

Yet you find fault with such an attitude when it's the most natural in the world.


I find no fault with that attitude, Lionel, within reason.  I've always been a nationalist but never to the point of chauvinism.  My problem has always been with the exclusion of people who are citizens from the nation on the basis of their religion/ethnicity/"race"/gender/sexuality/culture/etc./etc.  Once they swear allegiance they are Australians.

Remember, "I am, you are, we all are...?"    Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #33 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 6:59pm
 
Grand Duke Imam Mahdi wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 6:13pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 4:09pm:
Grand Duke Imam Mahdi wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 12:59am:
Ah yes yea old Afghan cameleers rolled out for islam.   Roll Eyes

The Abo's never called Australia Australia.

Countries have been fought over and won for centuries upon centuries, if we are going to harp on about traditional owners what a crock. No one knows if a race existed before abo's at all. It means diddly squat. Even if there was none it doesn't make them owners of anything. Just like being the owners of Ayers Rock is a crock.

The bottom line is displacing , annihilating through war or overrunning a country has been the norm in every country on the earth for centuries. Yet here we are still whining over aboriginals. Didn't K Dudd say he was sorry on behalf of how many generations of Labor and Greens supporters.   Grin .

For goodness sakes. They lost, we built Australia, they still live out in the bush, we still give handouts. What else is in the pipeline ?


Well, you do enjoy displaying your ignorance and racism, now don't you, Mahdi.  Your post is riddled with both and shows a profound misunderstanding of Australia's history and present day society.  I'd suggest you join Lionel back in the classroom...   Roll Eyes


I am not racist nor ignorant.


Really?  Then why can I count several ignorant racist assumptions in your post?   Roll Eyes

Quote:
I' say you have a few issues you need to work out like understanding the meanings of ignorant and what a racist is.


Nope.  I know the meanings of the words.  Do you?

Quote:
I suggest you come back here when you grow up, a few adults are speaking.


Yes, but it's a pity you aren't one of them.

Quote:
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about,  nor the capacity to understand posts you don't approve of. I would suggest controlling your angst and posting with maturity when you get some.


I disagree.   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Grand Duke Imam Mahdi
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #34 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 7:05pm
 
Troll much Brian or only on weekends ?
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Air is provided by God, not the muslim fictitious one, enjoy it while you can.
 
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Karnal
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #35 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 7:36pm
 
Grand Duke Imam Mahdi wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 6:13pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 4:09pm:
Grand Duke Imam Mahdi wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 12:59am:
Ah yes yea old Afghan cameleers rolled out for islam.   Roll Eyes

The Abo's never called Australia Australia.

Countries have been fought over and won for centuries upon centuries, if we are going to harp on about traditional owners what a crock. No one knows if a race existed before abo's at all. It means diddly squat. Even if there was none it doesn't make them owners of anything. Just like being the owners of Ayers Rock is a crock.

The bottom line is displacing , annihilating through war or overrunning a country has been the norm in every country on the earth for centuries. Yet here we are still whining over aboriginals. Didn't K Dudd say he was sorry on behalf of how many generations of Labor and Greens supporters.   Grin .

For goodness sakes. They lost, we built Australia, they still live out in the bush, we still give handouts. What else is in the pipeline ?


Well, you do enjoy displaying your ignorance and racism, now don't you, Mahdi.  Your post is riddled with both and shows a profound misunderstanding of Australia's history and present day society.  I'd suggest you join Lionel back in the classroom...   Roll Eyes


I am not racist nor ignorant.


That’s right. Some of your best friends are ignorant.

Not that there’s anything wrong with it.
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #36 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 7:37pm
 
You shouldn't lecture me on 'ownership', Brian.

My own Scots/Irish heritage only entitles me to my claim to be an Australian. The same as any other individual born in this country.

Yet my heritage pre-dates both Britain and the United Kingdom.

What chance have I of a claim to land-rights in the lands of my ancestors?

Where's my Mabo decision?

Anyway, I'm having a BBQ in my backyard. An Australian institution, yes?

Surely I'm entitled to choose the guest list?

My friends, indeed all those who 'fit in', of 'like minds', will be invited.

Is this not the way of the world all over?


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Toughen up, Australia!
 
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Karnal
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #37 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 7:49pm
 
Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 7:37pm:
Anyway, I'm having a BBQ in my backyard. An Australian institution, yes?

Surely I'm entitled to choose the guest list?

My friends, indeed all those who 'fit in', of 'like minds', will be invited.

Is this not the way of the world all over?



Not if they’re the enemy. If they’re on the wrong side there will be consequences.
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #38 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 7:56pm
 
Gatecrashers, of course, will be dealt with in the universal fashion.

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Brian Ross
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #39 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 8:49pm
 
Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 7:37pm:
You shouldn't lecture me on 'ownership', Brian.


I wasn't.  I was trying to educate you on the issue of Terra Nullius as against your claim that the indigenes had dispossessed their predecessors using such a concept.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
My own Scots/Irish heritage only entitles me to my claim to be an Australian. The same as any other individual born in this country.

Yet my heritage pre-dates both Britain and the United Kingdom.

What chance have I of a claim to land-rights in the lands of my ancestors?

Where's my Mabo decision?


Take it up with the UK government, Lionel.  You're still not understanding the difference between a claim of Terra Nullius and one of conquest...   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Anyway, I'm having a BBQ in my backyard. An Australian institution, yes?

Surely I'm entitled to choose the guest list?

My friends, indeed all those who 'fit in', of 'like minds', will be invited.

Is this not the way of the world all over?


I assume then, I won't be getting an invite, Lionel.  There is of course considerable difference between a private party, on private land and a nation which invites immigration and makes allowance for it in it's laws.

Tell me, Lionel, if someone was to say, turn up at your backgate during your BBQ and ask to be admitted because my life was in danger, would you refuse me entry?

What about if it was a woman wearing a Burqa or a man wearing a Bernoose?

Going to refuse them entry?  Even if their life was in danger? 

What happened to the Australian tradition of hospitality?   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Soren
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #40 - Jul 1st, 2014 at 8:47am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 4:04pm:
Soren wrote on Jun 27th, 2014 at 8:56pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27th, 2014 at 7:22pm:
Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 27th, 2014 at 4:54pm:
Muslims established their credentials and their allegiances in this country as early as 1915.


Some Muslims did, Lionel.  What about those who have fought for Australia in wars since then? 

Name them.


I only know of one personally.  However, as this Islamophobe article points out, there are 88 Muslims serving in the ADF at the present moment, Soren.  Is it's claim to be disbelieved?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Then we should forget our "auxiliaries", the Muslim interpreters and helpers whom we have used in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Is their service to be denied as well?

Soren, your bigotry appears to know no bounds...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



What exactly is Islamophobic about an article that says that Muslims enlist in foreign religious wars as jihadist (many of them stout bludgahadeens while in Australia)?

Nowadays plain speaking is instantly labelled as a phobia by the sandalista PC mongers like you.


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|dev|null
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #41 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 5:41pm
 
Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 7:37pm:
You shouldn't lecture me on 'ownership', Brian.

My own Scots/Irish heritage only entitles me to my claim to be an Australian. The same as any other individual born in this country.

Yet my heritage pre-dates both Britain and the United Kingdom.

What chance have I of a claim to land-rights in the lands of my ancestors?

Where's my Mabo decision?

Anyway, I'm having a BBQ in my backyard. An Australian institution, yes?

Surely I'm entitled to choose the guest list?

My friends, indeed all those who 'fit in', of 'like minds', will be invited.

Is this not the way of the world all over?


A society is a lot wider in it's attitudes, views, interests than your backyard Barbie invitation list.

So, I suppose you've never invited any crazy relatives to your backyard Barbies?   You know, the Aunt who babbles in the corner about "In our day..." or the Cousin who tries to grope your wife?  Every family has similar members or have you abandoned them the way you want to bar anybody else who is different to you?   Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #42 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 6:05pm
 
|dev|null wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 5:41pm:
A society is a lot wider in it's attitudes, views, interests than your backyard Barbie invitation list.  ... 


Sometimes it just gets too hard!

Now it's two who have replied to my post and taken my reference to a 'backyard BBQ' as a literal portrayal of some event in my personal life.

Neither of you considered that my use of such a phrase was a metaphoric reference to the generally accepted view of average Australian cultural mores.

Now, bearing that in mind, what is wrong with this statement:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 7:37pm:
  ...  Anyway, I'm having a BBQ in my backyard. An Australian institution, yes?

Surely I'm entitled to choose the guest list?

My friends, indeed all those who 'fit in', of 'like minds', will be invited.

Is this not the way of the world all over?


It ill behooves you to be so blithely critical.

May I suggest a few lessons in critical analysis?  Cool

   
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Soren
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #43 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 6:52pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 27th, 2014 at 7:12pm:
Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 27th, 2014 at 6:42pm:
I'm still hopeful that one of these days there'll be evidence found of a prior occupation of this continent that pre-dates the Aboriginal.

Now wouldn't THAT throw a spanner into the works of the indigenous victim-hood industry!  Miam miam!


Don't worry Lionel, your lot have already tried that one. You see there were three waves of Aboriginal migration - each successive one conquering the previous. So you see the "current" Aborigines are themselves conquerors and occupiers.

Surprised you haven't heard of that one before. You really should keep up with all the 'why we shouldn't feel guilty about causiing genocide' memes.

Well done Gandy. 5 Bonus points.

There were three major waves of migration of quite different ancient people who came to the Australian continent from southeast Asia. More than 40,000 years ago, when sea levels were much lower and Australia, New Guinea and Tasmania comprised one landmass, called Sahul, the first to arrive were a slightly-built people of pygmoid stature with dark skin and very frizzy hair. They were Negritos (named after the Spanish “little negro”), and they provided the initial population for the whole of this Greater Australia. About 20,000 years ago, a second type of people arrived from Asia. These newcomers, called Murrayians, were comparatively lightly skinned, wavy-haired, stocky in build, with a lot of body hair. They drove the Negritos before them until the latter retreated to the highlands of New Guinea, the rainforests of North Queensland and to then ice-capped Tasmania. The Murrayians became the dominant population on the east coast of Australia, and the open grasslands and parklands of the south and west of the continent. Then, about 15,000 years ago, a third wave of hunter-gatherers arrived. They were comparatively tall, straight-haired and dark skinned, with very little body hair. Named Carpentarians, they colonised northern and central Australia.
http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/history-wars/2002/06/the-extinction-of-the-australian-pygmies/
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: muslim pioneers?
Reply #44 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 7:13pm
 
So who, or which, gets to eat the Mabo cake?

Or are they all happily 'integrated' into today's 'Aboriginal'? One big happy tribe?

One supposes that only one 'species' survives today.

And they did it all themselves.

Just as mongrel as us 'Whites', eh?

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