Australian Politics Forum - Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea

Stratos

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4725

Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #105 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:52am

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:45am:

Asylum-seekers not found to be genuine are being returned home with their children.

Technically, their claims should be separate. If as you are suggesting, that their relatives are war criminals (which by the way you have provided zero evidence for), then surely the best thing to do would be to accept the children's blatant reason for asylum and ship the actual guilty people off to the hague.

Back to top

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

IP Logged

austranger

Gold Member

Offline

Opinionated Sod

Posts: 1506
adelaide
Gender: male

Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #106 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:14am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 8:37pm:

austranger wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 8:31pm:

So far as I'm aware the immigration act requires that anyone entering Oz must have a current visa, and that those seeking to settle here permanently must first be assessed and granted right of entry.
Therefore those forcing a landing anywhere here without such visa or approval are contravening the act, which is against the law, thus, illegal.

Could you please provide a link to the Section of the relevant Act that proscribes entering without a visa?

Not too much to ask, surely.

If you can provide that, it would indeed show that entering without a visa is illegal.

Because, as we all know, in order for something to be illegal it must be proscribed by an Act. Agreed?

So, over to you ...

On 1 November 2011 the Deterring People Smuggling Bill 2011 was introduced into Parliament.[119] The purpose of the Bill was to amend the Migration Act to clarify the meaning of the phrase ‘no lawful right to come to Australia’. The Bill inserts a provision with retrospective application that sets out the circumstances in which an unlawful non-citizen has no lawful right to come to Australia for the purposes of Subdivision A (people smuggling and related offences). Essentially, these circumstances are if the person does not hold a visa that is in effect or does not fall within any of the existing exceptions contained in section 42 of the Migration Act. The provision also clarifies that reference to a non-citizen includes a non-citizen who is seeking protection or asylum whether or not Australia has, or may owe them, protection obligations.

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 42
Visa essential for travel

         (1) Subject to subsections (2), (2A) and (3), a non-citizen must not travel to Australia without a visa that is in effect.

Note:       A maritime crew visa is generally permission to travel to Australia only by sea (see section 38B).

         (2) Subsection (1) does not apply to an allowed inhabitant of the Protected Zone travelling to a protected area in connection with traditional activities.

      (2A) Subsection (1) does not apply to a non-citizen in relation to travel to Australia:

                  (a) if the travel is by a New Zealand citizen who holds and produces a New Zealand passport that is in force; or

                  (b) if the travel is by a non-citizen who holds and produces a passport that is in force and is endorsed with an authority to reside indefinitely on Norfolk Island; or

                  (c) if:

                           (i) the non-citizen is brought to the migration zone under subsection 245F(9) of this Act or 72(4) of the Maritime Powers Act 2013 ; and

                           (ii) the non-citizen is a person who would, if in the migration zone, be an unlawful non-citizen; or

                  (ca) the non-citizen is brought to Australia under section 198B; or

                  (d) if:

                           (i) the non-citizen has been removed under section 198 to another country but has been refused entry by that country; and

                           (ii) the non-citizen travels to Australia as a direct result of that refusal; and

                        (iii) the non-citizen is a person who would, if in the migration zone, be an unlawful non-citizen; or

                  (e) if:

                           (i) the non-citizen has been removed under section 198; and

                           (ii) before the removal the High Court, the Federal Court or the Federal Circuit Court had made an order in relation to the non-citizen, or the Minister had given an undertaking to the High Court, the Federal Court or the Federal Circuit Court in relation to the non-citizen; and

                        (iii) the non-citizen's travel to Australia is required in order to give effect to the order or undertaking; and

                        (iv) the Minister has made a declaration that this paragraph is to apply in relation to the non-citizen's travel; and

                           (v) the non-citizen is a person who would, if in the migration zone, be an unlawful non-citizen; or

                  (f) if:

                           (i) the travel is from Norfolk Island to Australia; and

                           (ii) the Minister has made a declaration that this paragraph is to apply in relation to the non-citizen's travel; and

                        (iii) the non-citizen is a person who would, if in the migration zone, be an unlawful non-citizen.

         (3) The regulations may permit a specified non-citizen or a non-citizen in a specified class to travel to Australia without a visa that is in effect.

         (4) Nothing in subsection (2A) or (3) is to be taken to affect the non-citizen's status in the migration zone as an unlawful non-citizen.

Note:       Section 189 provides that an unlawful non-citizen in the migration zone must be detained.

Back to top

Any day with a smile in it is a good day

IP Logged

ian

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 9451

Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #107 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:18am

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:04am:

Aussie wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:26pm:

Yeas. Tony's on the money here. No refoulment at all. Onya Tone, you bewdy.

Link.

Quote:

The Tamil Refugee Council claims at least 11 people who Australia has reportedly handed over to the Sri Lankan navy have been tortured by that country's intelligence services.

Some of these Tamils are war criminals from their 23 year civil war. Tamils would stop a bus in the countryside ... order the people out ... and then execute those who they didn't think were on their side.

Im calling bs on the torture claim anyway, no valid source on the claim.

Back to top

IP Logged

DaS Energy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3962 Gender:	Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea Reply #108 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:58am Repeat
Back to top	IP Logged

DaS Energy

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3962
Gender: male

Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #109 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 10:00am

On 1 November 2011 the Deterring People Smuggling Bill 2011 was introduced into Parliament.[119] The purpose of the Bill was to amend the Migration Act to clarify the meaning of the phrase ‘no lawful right to come to Australia’.

(iii) the non-citizen is a person who would, if in the migration zone, be an unlawful non-citizen; or

On 30 October 2012, the Australian Labor Party federal parliamentary caucus resolved to excise the entire Australian mainland from the migration zone, in order to remove any incentive for asylum seekers travelling from Indonesia to try to reach the mainland instead of the previously excised territories which are closer to Indonesia.
On May 16, 2013, Parliament passed a law to excise the mainland itself from the migration zone, an unprecedented act.]

Back to top

IP Logged

Lord Herbert

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 34441
Gender: male

Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #110 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:11am

Stratos wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:52am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:45am:

Asylum-seekers not found to be genuine are being returned home with their children.

Technically, their claims should be separate. If as you are suggesting, that their relatives are war criminals (which by the way you have provided zero evidence for), then surely the best thing to do would be to accept the children's blatant reason for asylum and ship the actual guilty people off to the hague.

***

Admiral Thisara Samarasinghe, the Sri Lankan High Commissioner to Australia:

"THISARA SAMARASINGHE: I have not been specifically advised. I have seen the media and the policy of the Australian Government is that need not be any Sri Lankan asylum seekers. If they do not meet the criteria for refugee status, they will be sent back. Evidence is available to you, Tony, over 1,000 have already been repatriated, including about plus 100-plus voluntary repatriations. So this is a practically possible venture and I expect them to be sent back because I do not consider there's any Sri Lankan should leave Sri Lankan shores and ask for refugee status in any country.

"TONY JONES: OK. As you say, around 1,000 have been sent back. 5,000 plus have not been sent back yet and their situation is still to be determined. Now, if they are considered by the Australian Government to be genuine refugees, do you accept they have a right to remain in Australia because they are in fear of their lives or have - are in fear of suffering human rights abuse in Sri Lanka?

THISARA SAMARASINGHE: That is not a acceptable situation to say that there is human right abuse or fear. They need not come to Australia if they fear for life. There is much closer destination if they have to go. And people have gone to other destinations and they have returned from such destinations after the conflict was over. So it is mainly economic opportunities and front organisation in many countries are encouraging the human traffickers, the criminals. It's a criminal mechanism that is taking place supported by terrorists, drug traffickers and human smugglers".

link

And then once again, if you place no credibility upon Australia's recent Labor Foreign Minister declaring openly that these Sri Lankans are economic migrants, then perhaps you should take it up with him, and not me.

Back to top

IP Logged

Stratos

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4725

Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #111 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:32am

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:11am:

And then once again, if you place no credibility upon Australia's recent Labor Foreign Minister declaring openly that these Sri Lankans are economic migrants, then perhaps you should take it up with him, and not me.

Bob Carr has never come out with any evidence, and I have provided you with three fact finding sources, all of which say that his claim is devoid of evidence.

My claim is not one based on assumption, but on the findings of three separate reports done into the very statement you are claiming as truth with nothing to back it up.

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-14/no-evidence-bob-carr-economic-migrants/482...
http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jun/28/bob-carr/are-b...
http://theconversation.com/factcheck-are-asylum-seekers-really-economic-migrants...

In case you missed my post before.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:11am:

I do not consider there's any Sri Lankan should leave Sri Lankan shores and ask for refugee status in any country.

And like that he's lost me That statement is completely farcical.

Back to top

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

IP Logged

hermoine Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 364	Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea Reply #112 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:38am Who made it concrete that every Tamil in the world is under threat of death?
Back to top	IP Logged

Stratos

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4725

Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #113 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:45am

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:38am:

Who made it concrete that every Tamil in the world is under threat of death?

Nobody, and I doubt you will find anyone arguing this. However, Tamils are a persecuted minority and I believe their claims (like anyone) should be assessed, and that handing them back to a government which is known to persecute them without conducting the proper checks is wrong.

Back to top

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

IP Logged

hermoine

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 364

Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #114 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:52am

Stratos wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:38am:

Who made it concrete that every Tamil in the world is under threat of death?

Nobody, and I doubt you will find anyone arguing this. However, Tamils are a persecuted minority and I believe their claims (like anyone) should be assessed, and that handing them back to a government which is known to persecute them without conducting the proper checks is wrong.

As I understand their backgrounds are being checked and many just don't have grounds to stay in Australia.

Back to top

IP Logged

Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea Reply #115 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:54am hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:52am: As I understand their backgrounds are being checked and many just don't have grounds to stay in Australia. What are you basing this on? The validity of their claims I mean
Back to top	Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm: Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act IP Logged

hermoine

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 364

Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #116 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:59am

Stratos wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:54am:

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:52am:

As I understand their backgrounds are being checked and many just don't have grounds to stay in Australia.

What are you basing this on? The validity of their claims I mean

So you believe that most of these people have grounds to stay here then?

Back to top

IP Logged

Stratos

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4725

Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #117 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:07pm

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:59am:

So you believe that most of these people have grounds to stay here then?

Where did I say that? better question, why are you trying to change the subject?

I'll humour you and answer regardless: I think their claims should be properly processed.

Back to you:

Stratos wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:54am:

What are you basing this on? The validity of their claims I mean

Back to top

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

IP Logged

hermoine

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 364

Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #118 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:09pm

Stratos wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:07pm:

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:59am:

So you believe that most of these people have grounds to stay here then?

Where did I say that? better question, why are you trying to change the subject?

I'll humour you and answer regardless: I think their claims should be properly processed.

Back to you:

Stratos wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:54am:

What are you basing this on? The validity of their claims I mean

So properly processing to you means they are granted asylum?

Back to top

IP Logged

Stratos

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4725

Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #119 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:20pm

Stratos wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:07pm:

What are you basing this on? The validity of their claims I mean

Come on, stop avoiding the question Hermione. This is the third time you have been asked now.

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:09pm:

So properly processing to you means they are granted asylum?