Australian Politics Forum - Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea

Rhet-Oracle Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 408	Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea Reply #45 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:44pm John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:40pm: Rhet-Oracle wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:32pm: Are you the one in the middle dipstick? you're the one on the right? right? Hurry dipstick you're needed!
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woof woof Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1518 Gender:	Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea Reply #46 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:44pm I and millions of others don't give a flying bugger about these boat ppl. They are not wanted here by I would guess 90% of the population. Sending this lot of Sri Lankans back to Sri Lanka will be the final arrival of boats, the message loud and clear. bugger off your not wanted or invited
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Rhet-Oracle Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 408	Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea Reply #47 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:44pm .
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Kytro

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Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #48 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 4:04pm

ian wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:36am:

Kytro wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:35am:

Swagman wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:26am:

____ wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 9:31am:

Swagman wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 9:29am:

Keep up the good job Tony. Smiley

Undermining the global approach to refugees so causing even more deaths and more opportunity for persecution. How is that a good thing?

He's stopping the unauthorised boats and thus limiting the amount of unlawful non-citiizens.

Burnside is likely unhappy because Tony is limiting his source of potential income.

He is also likely sending people to their deaths.

explain your claim.

People are fleeing persecution, including possible execution and he sends them back without even assessing the claims, so some are likely to be killed.

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Kytro

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Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #49 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 4:08pm

woof woof wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:44pm:

I and millions of others don't give a flying bugger about these boat ppl. They are not wanted here by I would guess 90% of the population.

Sending this lot of Sri Lankans back to Sri Lanka will be the final arrival of boats, the message loud and clear.

bugger off your not wanted or invited

It's not 90%. There is about 70% support for turning back boats "if safe" and about 56% support for offshore processing.

This wasn't always the case, it has changed as governments and media created a negative image.

If Australia does not want follow the rules it agreed to, it should withdraw from the treaty, not break it.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 136426 Gender:	Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea Reply #50 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 4:35pm bogarde73 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:16pm: You do what you have to to keep the invasion at bay. And you don't talk about it, you don't feed the enemy. "invasion"? "enemy"? Paranoid much?
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|dev|null

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Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #51 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 5:04pm

ian wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:10pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 2:42pm:

austranger wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 2:35pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

ian wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:41am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 9:25am:

Morrison officially calls boat people “illegal” in an attempt to convey the impression that they are criminals, when in fact they commit no offence at all by coming here as they do.

Clever spin but Morrison is correct. Just because no offence is committed does not make the fact of the entry legal, it is still an illegal act to enter without a valid visa. You and the author are under the illusion that an illegal act must have a penalty, this is incorrect.

Actually, it isn't. The Immigration Act officially declares it "unlawful" NOT "illegal". Grin

"unlawful" NOT "illegal".

Care to explain the difference, especially in how it applies in this circumstance? Cool

"Illegal" assumes a judgement has been made by a properly convened judicial authority against the individual concerned. In this case, the Immigration Review Tribunal.

"Unlawful" simply states that it is against the law. No judgement has been made as to whether or not the individual is guilty of the offence they are being charged with. Grin

totally incorrect, as I stated, simply because an act is illegal does not make it bound to a judgement or a penalty. Its quite clear that anyone who enters australia without a valid visa is doing so illegally despite the fact there is no penalty prescribed by law.

We are not talking about "an act" we are talking about how the perpetrator is described.

You may have noticed how the ABC describes a person who has allegedly committed a criminal act - they use the word "allegedly" for a reason, a legal reason. You cannot describe a person as a criminal unless they have been convicted of a criminal offence, otherwise they'll sue the pants off you.

Same goes for Asylum Seekers. They have not been convicted of any illegal act. They may have committed an "unlawful" act but they haven't been convicted of anything.

As it is, coming to Australia and seeking Asylum as you have been told many times is not an illegal act. Arriving by boat without documentation, is an unlawful act. If you fail to produce the documentation required and your claim for Asylum is disallowed, then you can be described as an "illegal immigrant". NOT BEFORE. This is basic law. Go put the Dunce's Hat on, sit on the stool in the corner. Grin

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woof woof Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1518 Gender:	Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea Reply #52 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 5:12pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 4:35pm: bogarde73 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:16pm: You do what you have to to keep the invasion at bay. And you don't talk about it, you don't feed the enemy. "invasion"? "enemy"? Paranoid much? How many should we refuse to collect from boats??
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #53 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 5:13pm

woof woof wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 5:12pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 4:35pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:16pm:

You do what you have to to keep the invasion at bay.
And you don't talk about it, you don't feed the enemy.

"invasion"?

"enemy"?

Paranoid much?

How many should we refuse to collect from boats??

I give in: how many?

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adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea Reply #54 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 5:23pm If Hockey cried like a baby at the very thought of sending asylum seekers to Malaysia he must be beside himself with grief over this. I wonder when he is going to slam Abbott and Morrison for what they are doing or was it all just a pathetic lie?
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DaS Energy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3962 Gender:	Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea Reply #55 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 1:03am Coalition is playing war games with refugees. Treats them as escaped prisoners of war. Hostile to the country they are escaping from. Captured and handed back over.
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DaS Energy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3962 Gender:	Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea Reply #56 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 1:04am Coalition is playing war games with refugees. Treats them as escaped prisoners of war. Hostile to the country they are escaping from. Captured and handed back over.
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Soren

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Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #57 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 7:13pm

|dev|null wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 5:04pm:

ian wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:10pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 2:42pm:

austranger wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 2:35pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

ian wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:41am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 9:25am:

Morrison officially calls boat people “illegal” in an attempt to convey the impression that they are criminals, when in fact they commit no offence at all by coming here as they do.

Clever spin but Morrison is correct. Just because no offence is committed does not make the fact of the entry legal, it is still an illegal act to enter without a valid visa. You and the author are under the illusion that an illegal act must have a penalty, this is incorrect.

Actually, it isn't. The Immigration Act officially declares it "unlawful" NOT "illegal". Grin

"unlawful" NOT "illegal".

Care to explain the difference, especially in how it applies in this circumstance? Cool

"Illegal" assumes a judgement has been made by a properly convened judicial authority against the individual concerned. In this case, the Immigration Review Tribunal.

"Unlawful" simply states that it is against the law. No judgement has been made as to whether or not the individual is guilty of the offence they are being charged with. Grin

totally incorrect, as I stated, simply because an act is illegal does not make it bound to a judgement or a penalty. Its quite clear that anyone who enters australia without a valid visa is doing so illegally despite the fact there is no penalty prescribed by law.

We are not talking about "an act" we are talking about how the perpetrator is described.

You may have noticed how the ABC describes a person who has allegedly committed a criminal act - they use the word "allegedly" for a reason, a legal reason. You cannot describe a person as a criminal unless they have been convicted of a criminal offence, otherwise they'll sue the pants off you.

Same goes for Asylum Seekers. They have not been convicted of any illegal act. They may have committed an "unlawful" act but they haven't been convicted of anything.

As it is, coming to Australia and seeking Asylum as you have been told many times is not an illegal act. Arriving by boat without documentation, is an unlawful act. If you fail to produce the documentation required and your claim for Asylum is disallowed, then you can be described as an "illegal immigrant". NOT BEFORE. This is basic law. Go put the Dunce's Hat on, sit on the stool in the corner. Grin

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ian

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Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #58 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 7:22pm

|dev|null wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 5:04pm:

We are not talking about "an act" we are talking about how the perpetrator is described.

You may have noticed how the ABC describes a person who has allegedly committed a criminal act - they use the word "allegedly" for a reason, a legal reason. You cannot describe a person as a criminal unless they have been convicted of a criminal offence, otherwise they'll sue the pants off you.

Same goes for Asylum Seekers. They have not been convicted of any illegal act. They may have committed an "unlawful" act but they haven't been convicted of anything.

As it is, coming to Australia and seeking Asylum as you have been told many times is not an illegal act. Arriving by boat without documentation, is an unlawful act. If you fail to produce the documentation required and your claim for Asylum is disallowed, then you can be described as an "illegal immigrant". NOT BEFORE. This is basic law. Go put the Dunce's Hat on, sit on the stool in the corner. Grin

any person who enters australia without a valid visa does so illegally, this may not make them a criminal however it is still an illegal act. How do we know this I hear you ask. Simples, the crime of people smuggling depends on their human cargo being transported illegally, without the illegal entry the crime of people smuggling can not be proved. we currently have a large number of people incarcerated for people smuggling. Greggary cant seem to grasp this, I hope you can.

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red baron

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Re: Abbott Mob Illegally Processing Refugees @ Sea
Reply #59 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 7:52pm

Whatever happens at sea stays at sea, seems like a good outcome any way you poke it.

Reality check, word is out that the huge majority just won't make it to Manus Island let alone Australia and the clientele has dried up, good one for Aus and its long suffering taxpayers.

Remember the days of Labor and the armada of boats lining up for our handouts? Bad dream? More like a bloody nightmare.

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