Australian Politics Forum - Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology

greggerypeccary

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Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology
Reply #120 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:38pm

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:24pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:20pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 6:27pm:

Racism in Western Europe in the form we know it, today only started in the 18th century as a means to justify European Imperialism. From it, the discipline of Anthropology was created (the discipline's "dirty secret". ). It has of course developed beyond that but that is it's central core - justifying the domination of others on the basis of physical and social differences.

Specious bollocks, Brain, just silly crap.

Or 'social construct' as you would say.

*SIGH*, you can't say I haven't tried, Soren. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Roll Eyes

You mean you have no idea what to say.

It's pretty hard to respond to your nonsense on a good day, Soren.

In this case, you could hardly expect Brian to even open his mouth.

You have no idea either. Here was an opportunity for both of you to present a coherent point but neither of you can manage it. Neither of you can EVER manage it. It's not within your capabilities to be coherent.

Game over. Thank you linesmen, than you ball boys.

Too late, Soren.

Sorry, old boy.

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Soren

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Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology
Reply #121 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:46pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:38pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:24pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:20pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 6:27pm:

Racism in Western Europe in the form we know it, today only started in the 18th century as a means to justify European Imperialism. From it, the discipline of Anthropology was created (the discipline's "dirty secret". ). It has of course developed beyond that but that is it's central core - justifying the domination of others on the basis of physical and social differences.

Specious bollocks, Brain, just silly crap.

Or 'social construct' as you would say.

*SIGH*, you can't say I haven't tried, Soren. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Roll Eyes

You mean you have no idea what to say.

It's pretty hard to respond to your nonsense on a good day, Soren.

In this case, you could hardly expect Brian to even open his mouth.

You have no idea either. Here was an opportunity for both of you to present a coherent point but neither of you can manage it. Neither of you can EVER manage it. It's not within your capabilities to be coherent.

Game over. Thank you linesmen, than you ball boys.

Too late, Soren.

Sorry, old boy.

WhaddItellya??

It's not within your capabilities to be coherent.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology
Reply #122 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:49pm

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:38pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:24pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:20pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 6:27pm:

Racism in Western Europe in the form we know it, today only started in the 18th century as a means to justify European Imperialism. From it, the discipline of Anthropology was created (the discipline's "dirty secret". ). It has of course developed beyond that but that is it's central core - justifying the domination of others on the basis of physical and social differences.

Specious bollocks, Brain, just silly crap.

Or 'social construct' as you would say.

*SIGH*, you can't say I haven't tried, Soren. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Roll Eyes

You mean you have no idea what to say.

It's pretty hard to respond to your nonsense on a good day, Soren.

In this case, you could hardly expect Brian to even open his mouth.

You have no idea either. Here was an opportunity for both of you to present a coherent point but neither of you can manage it. Neither of you can EVER manage it. It's not within your capabilities to be coherent.

Game over. Thank you linesmen, than you ball boys.

Too late, Soren.

Sorry, old boy.

WhaddItellya??

It's not within your capabilities to be coherent.

Yes, you told us, Soren.

You told us Wink

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology Reply #123 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 10:14pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:49pm: Yes, you told us, Soren. You told us No - I told YOU.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 136424 Gender:	Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology Reply #124 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 10:25pm Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 10:14pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:49pm: Yes, you told us, Soren. You told us No - I told YOU. Yes, Soren, you sure did. You sure did
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Brian Ross

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Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology
Reply #125 - Jul 12^th, 2014 at 12:16am

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:20pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 6:27pm:

Racism in Western Europe in the form we know it, today only started in the 18th century as a means to justify European Imperialism. From it, the discipline of Anthropology was created (the discipline's "dirty secret". ). It has of course developed beyond that but that is it's central core - justifying the domination of others on the basis of physical and social differences.

Specious bollocks, Brain, just silly crap.

Or 'social construct' as you would say.

*SIGH*, you can't say I haven't tried, Soren. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Roll Eyes

You mean you have no idea what to say.

True. I am speechless. I have explained the matter to the best of my ability and yet you wilfully refuse to accept it because it does not fit your preconceived yet ignorant notions of how it should be. That indicates to me a failure on your part, in understanding the matter rather than a failure on my part in communication. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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vikaryan

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Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology
Reply #126 - Jul 12^th, 2014 at 8:41am

Joan Reilly, Surrey Hills

Quote:

Why we must learn from history

Did Tony Abbott ever share the experience of so many Australians, listening to stories of beloved family members involved in the Japanese ''theatre'' of World War II?

Some of our women who were forced to become ''comfort women'' for Japanese troops are still alive. But Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is unconvinced that the 200,000 comfort women from China, Korea, and other countries were coerced, and Japan has recently opposed a proposed statue in Sydney to honour these women.

Somehow our Prime Minister (aka our Minister for Women) does not ''get'' the problem: Japan has never really faced up to its wartime atrocities.

By contrast, it was refreshing to learn from young tour guides in Europe that all students in Germany are required to visit a concentration camp as part of their education, to see the Nazi horrors for themselves, in the hope such crimes will never be repeated.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-letters/repeat-your-speech-to-the-rsl-mr-abbott-20140710-3bq3j.html

Does "visit[ing] a concentration camp as part of their education" include a visit to the Gaza Concentration Camp?

https://www.facebook.com/IsraelWC/photos_stream

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We fight a holy war against the fat and the corrupt and the sinful and the unbelieving!

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vikaryan Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 453 Gender:	Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology Reply #127 - Jul 12^th, 2014 at 8:42am For those who support Israel. you will change your mind after this video. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=654571754633649&set=vb.333012743456220&type=2&theater
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...

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Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology
Reply #128 - Jul 12^th, 2014 at 9:20am

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:50pm:

... wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 7:16pm:

Something that strikes me as odd is how "genetics" distinguishes between which traits we (and by we, I mean white people) consider superficial characteristics and those we don't, so that it "knows" which traits it will allow variation in.

It seems that an entirely different set of genetic laws apply to our internal organs than what apply to the more "superficial" traits like skin and eye colour. Perhaps our resident geneticist could explain this little quirk of science?

I am not a geneticist, Wesley. However, I'll attempt to answer your question.

A single word, Wesley - evolution. Our internal organs have evolved to provide what our body requires so they hardly differ nor need to visibly be different, between the various human groups or even individuals. A human liver will look like a liver and function like a liver no matter where you are or who you are. Ditto for all other internal organs. There is minor and subtle variations, which different genetic combinations account for, such as the inability of many some people to metabolise alcohol easily. This often occurs amongst East Asians but can also occur in other human individuals who aren't Asian, as well. If a need develops for humans to develop new or different organs, then evolution will produce it or we'll die out as a species, as do all that cannot adapt to their environment (unless of course we change the environment and force it to adapt to our needs).

The one thing you got right there is that you're not a geneticist. A number of points to raise with that ham-fisted attempt:

1. Evolution doesn't just get things working and say "now we're done". It is a constant process of change in response to environmental factors, which differ from region to region and culture to culture.

2. There are 8 different blood types that all "provide what our body requires" and yet....there's 8 different types. And that's just the blood - the human brain is the most complex structure in the known universe, so it's just simple mathematics that it has the most potential for variation. It's like the differnce between cash 3 and the lotto numbers - matching 3 out of 10 by chance isn't so hard, but getting 6 out of 45 is incredibly difficult and projecting further, getting 10 out of 2000 is so unlikely it's effectively impossible.

Quote:

Externally, we differ because it is with the external world our body interfaces. We evolve to meet our environmental needs, fastest and this shows in our superficial, external features. Dark skin for the tropics, because we do not need to metabolise as much sunlight for Vitamin D, light skin for upper-latitudes where we do need it. Long noses for cold climates, to warm the air we breath, before it enters our lungs, flat noses for warmer climates where it isn't needed. Epicanthic folds over the eyelids, to help protect them against cold winds, none, where it isn't as necessary. There are numerous examples.

Fair enough - but when you demonstrate that you do have some inkling of how evolution works, it makes me wonder why you apply it so inconsistently. What gives, BT? Happy living a lie?

Quote:

However, in all cases, we share the same genes, we are of the same species and hence the same 'race". There is no inferiority, no superiority, we adapt over time to our environments. I don't doubt in a few thousand years, we'll have no legs, long arms and ten fingers on each hand, with double thumbs. Can you guess why? Wink

Interesting. In just a few thousand years you foresee such radical changes as loss of our extremities, and yet when abos got 50 thousand years in isolation, they evolved to be.....exactly the same as everyone else? Not real consistent, is it BT?

I might also point out that traits are passed down when they provide an edge in survival and reproduction. It would be remiss of me not to point out that being a fat nerd glued to your computer doesn't provide an edge in either - in fact it harms them quite significantly. So I'm sorry, but your prophecy just doesn't have a chance.

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In the fullness of time...

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vikaryan

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Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology
Reply #129 - Jul 12^th, 2014 at 10:54am

Women care a lot more about race than men:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/07/why-does-race-matter-for-women/

Gendered Racial Exclusion
: http://paa2008.princeton.edu/papers/80046

Racial Preferences in Dating:
http://www.columbia.edu/~ss957/articles/Racial%20Preferences%20in%20Dating.pdf

Why does race matter for women?
- Discover Magazine Blogs http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/07/why-does-race-matter-for-women/#.U8B8QLFHUTA

Most Women Are Racists…

Consider “Racial Preferences in Dating,”
a study of more than 400 graduate and professional students who participated in speed dating sessions at Columbia University organized by Raymond Fisman, Sheena S. Iyengar, Emir Kamenica and Itamar Simonson. The researchers conclude:

“Even in a population of relatively progressive individuals who have self-selected into participation in a multi-cultural Speed Dating event, we observe strong racial preferences.”

There’s also a clear gender divide, as the researchers note:

“Women of all races exhibit strong same race preferences, while men of no race exhibit a statistically significant same race preference.”

http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/single-female-seeking-same-race-male/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

http://www.thejourneyofsuperman.com/most-women-are-racists/

Kiss

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Brian Ross

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Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology
Reply #130 - Jul 12^th, 2014 at 1:48pm

... wrote on Jul 12^th, 2014 at 9:20am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:50pm:

... wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 7:16pm:

Something that strikes me as odd is how "genetics" distinguishes between which traits we (and by we, I mean white people) consider superficial characteristics and those we don't, so that it "knows" which traits it will allow variation in.

It seems that an entirely different set of genetic laws apply to our internal organs than what apply to the more "superficial" traits like skin and eye colour. Perhaps our resident geneticist could explain this little quirk of science?

I am not a geneticist, Wesley. However, I'll attempt to answer your question.

A single word, Wesley - evolution. Our internal organs have evolved to provide what our body requires so they hardly differ nor need to visibly be different, between the various human groups or even individuals. A human liver will look like a liver and function like a liver no matter where you are or who you are. Ditto for all other internal organs. There is minor and subtle variations, which different genetic combinations account for, such as the inability of many some people to metabolise alcohol easily. This often occurs amongst East Asians but can also occur in other human individuals who aren't Asian, as well. If a need develops for humans to develop new or different organs, then evolution will produce it or we'll die out as a species, as do all that cannot adapt to their environment (unless of course we change the environment and force it to adapt to our needs).

The one thing you got right there is that you're not a geneticist. A number of points to raise with that ham-fisted attempt:

1. Evolution doesn't just get things working and say "now we're done". It is a constant process of change in response to environmental factors, which differ from region to region and culture to culture.

True but you should note, if you had read the entire post and understood it, that I did not imply that evolution is done. Roll Eyes

Quote:

2. There are 8 different blood types that all "provide what our body requires" and yet....there's 8 different types. And that's just the blood - the human brain is the most complex structure in the known universe, so it's just simple mathematics that it has the most potential for variation. It's like the differnce between cash 3 and the lotto numbers - matching 3 out of 10 by chance isn't so hard, but getting 6 out of 45 is incredibly difficult and projecting further, getting 10 out of 2000 is so unlikely it's effectively impossible.

Brains are indeed interesting. The reason why the children of geniuses aren't necessarily geniuses in their own right is because of a rule called "reversion to the norm". Mozart's children did not inherit the genius of their father and faded into obscurity. There are numerous other examples. The reality is that for a mutation to change the human body in some significant way, it must confer significant advantage to it's owner.

Quote:

Quote:

Externally, we differ because it is with the external world our body interfaces. We evolve to meet our environmental needs, fastest and this shows in our superficial, external features. Dark skin for the tropics, because we do not need to metabolise as much sunlight for Vitamin D, light skin for upper-latitudes where we do need it. Long noses for cold climates, to warm the air we breath, before it enters our lungs, flat noses for warmer climates where it isn't needed. Epicanthic folds over the eyelids, to help protect them against cold winds, none, where it isn't as necessary. There are numerous examples.

Fair enough - but when you demonstrate that you do have some inkling of how evolution works, it makes me wonder why you apply it so inconsistently. What gives, BT? Happy living a lie?

Who is "BT"? Are you addressing someone else? Roll Eyes

Quote:

However, in all cases, we share the same genes, we are of the same species and hence the same 'race". There is no inferiority, no superiority, we adapt over time to our environments. I don't doubt in a few thousand years, we'll have no legs, long arms and ten fingers on each hand, with double thumbs. Can you guess why? Wink

Interesting. In just a few thousand years you foresee such radical changes as loss of our extremities, and yet when abos got 50 thousand years in isolation, they evolved to be.....exactly the same as everyone else? Not real consistent, is it BT?

Whom are you addressing your remarks to? I am confused. Roll Eyes

It was BTW, rather obviously a joke and based upon how the young of today are utilising their hands primarily to text and their legs are rarely utilised except to walk to the fridge and back. Grin

Quote:

I might also point out that traits are passed down when they provide an edge in survival and reproduction. It would be remiss of me not to point out that being a fat nerd glued to your computer doesn't provide an edge in either - in fact it harms them quite significantly. So I'm sorry, but your prophecy just doesn't have a chance.

I didn't claim it had. I merely made a joking observation. It is obviously you are somewhat lacking in humour. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology
Reply #131 - Jul 12^th, 2014 at 2:56pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12^th, 2014 at 1:48pm:

The reality is that for a mutation to change the human body in some significant way, it must confer significant advantage to it's owner.

Reads like the script of an X-men movie. That must be where you got your understanding of genetics.

The prime force of evolution isn't single, radical mutations, it's the sum of tiny, incremental changes over huge timescales, so it's not about conferring a massive advantage to one person, it's about conferring tiny advantages throughout populations over generations.

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In the fullness of time...

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Brian Ross

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Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology
Reply #132 - Jul 12^th, 2014 at 5:10pm

... wrote on Jul 12^th, 2014 at 2:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12^th, 2014 at 1:48pm:

The reality is that for a mutation to change the human body in some significant way, it must confer significant advantage to it's owner.

Reads like the script of an X-men movie. That must be where you got your understanding of genetics.

The prime force of evolution isn't single, radical mutations, it's the sum of tiny, incremental changes over huge timescales, so it's not about conferring a massive advantage to one person, it's about conferring tiny advantages throughout populations over generations.

I think you don't understand the meaning of "radical" in the context of genetics. You're right about evolutionary theory but practice tends to be a little different.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology
Reply #133 - Jul 12^th, 2014 at 6:34pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12^th, 2014 at 12:16am:

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:20pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 6:27pm:

Racism in Western Europe in the form we know it, today only started in the 18th century as a means to justify European Imperialism. From it, the discipline of Anthropology was created (the discipline's "dirty secret". ). It has of course developed beyond that but that is it's central core - justifying the domination of others on the basis of physical and social differences.

Specious bollocks, Brain, just silly crap.

Or 'social construct' as you would say.

*SIGH*, you can't say I haven't tried, Soren. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Roll Eyes

You mean you have no idea what to say.

True. I am speechless. I have explained the matter to the best of my ability and yet you wilfully refuse to accept it because it does not fit your preconceived yet ignorant notions of how it should be. That indicates to me a failure on your part, in understanding the matter rather than a failure on my part in communication. Roll Eyes

What you are trying to present is that our perception that beheading someone on youtube in the name of Allah, or killing a white jogger for 'fun' by three black teenagers is seen as abhorrent only because of our abhorrence is a social construct and other people could view these events as OK and there is no objective way to differentiate between people who say these are abhorrent acts and the people who say they are OK because it's all just social construct.
And when there is more Muslim violence and more black violence, it is verboten to observe that there is a pattern here. Noticing trends, you would say, is a social construct.
You do not say that your reflex PC blindness to any patterns is then also a social construct. No. Your views are insights into objective truths. You are completely blind to the obvious - your argument's first casualty is your own argument.

So insytead of being able to self-reflect a little, you get pouty when I point out how idiotic your argument for 'perception is social construct' is.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Multiculturalism is an anti-Western ideology
Reply #134 - Jul 12^th, 2014 at 8:08pm

Soren wrote on Jul 12^th, 2014 at 6:34pm:

What you are trying to present is that our perception that beheading someone on youtube in the name of Allah, or killing a white jogger for 'fun' by three black teenagers is seen as abhorrent only because of our abhorrence is a social construct and other people could view these events as OK and there is no objective way to differentiate between people who say these are abhorrent acts and the people who say they are OK because it's all just social construct.

Yet you are now moving away from genetics towards social behaviour, Soren and last time I looked, most people agree social behaviour is a "social construct".

Further, there is an old saying in statistics which you seem unwilling to accept - "correlation does not denote causation". You may discover a strong correlation between "race" and behaviour BUT there may be another factor which you have not noticed or are wilfully ignoring because it does not suit your preconceptions. My Statistic teachers were always very careful about describing something as being the cause of something, because of that.

Quote:

And when there is more Muslim violence and more black violence, it is verboten to observe that there is a pattern here. Noticing trends, you would say, is a social construct.

No, there is nothing wrong with noticing trends or patterns. Attributing their causes to say a broad religion or to the colour of a person's skin is wrong though, because again, correlation does not denote causation. Roll Eyes

Quote:

You do not say that your reflex PC blindness to any patterns is then also a social construct. No. Your views are insights into objective truths. You are completely blind to the obvious - your argument's first casualty is your own argument.

I am not blind to patterns, Soren. However, I am much more careful than racists and refuse to believe that the colour of a person's skin predetermines them to being violent. Roll Eyes

Quote:

So insytead of being able to self-reflect a little, you get pouty when I point out how idiotic your argument for 'perception is social construct' is.

No, I point out that you are wilfully refusing to recognise the validity of the argument because it does not fit your preconceived notions of what causes something. You attribute it to "race". I attribute it to other factors. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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