What about Egypt? We both remember you twisting yourself into knots trying to explain a pro Egyptian-democracy rally as an anti-freedom rally

Let me take a wild stab in the dark here - "democracy" in muslims lands is only commendable if its imposed by the west, on western terms - not when its a grassroots movement that votes in the "wrong" guys amrite?

The biggest threat to democracy in Islam's traditional heartland is a combination of secular dictators, and US intervention.

Saudi Arabia - the key sponsor of the jihadists running rampant in Syria, as well as key sponsor of anti-freedom, anti-democracy in the region, is supported almost unconditionally by the US.

10 pages eh? I guess you won't have any trouble quoting me then.

I am suspicious because I have not heard anything about freedom or democracy from them, and the words were not used on any of their placards.

Obviously if their main interest was democracy, there would have been more democracy placards.

Quote:
The sunnis have been effectively excluded from the "democracy" in Iraq


How?

The prime minister emphasized Shia dominance in state institutions and has changed the dynamics of Shia politics. In his second term, Maliki took advantage of deficits in power-sharing agreements. Using the powerful patronage available to him as chief executive, he pursued a policy of “divide and rule” in dealing with other parties. He filled vacant positions in the military and administration with his loyalists and augmented the powers of his office and of networks related to him personally, thereby creating a kind of “shadow state” within the government. He gave more influence to independent commissions such as the de-Baathification committee, the Communication and Media Commission, the Iraqi Media Network, the Central Bank of Iraq, and the Commission of Integrity. He managed to greatly subjugate the federal court and forge an alliance with its chief that helped him encircle his opponents and weaken their ability to check his power through the parliament. The fact that Iraq is a rentier state and the Iraqi economy is largely dependent on oil revenue has also tended to empower the executive branch and those forces that seek to establish a more centralized state.

The quote you provided does not reflect that in any way and was made before the existence of the pro-democracy banner was established.

This is not the same thing as effectively excluding Sunnis - the majority of the population

In other words, they were included in the process. Just because you lost does not mean you weren't allowed to participate, and trying to build that narrative is just sour grapes.

I just asked you about that. Strange that you are so reluctant to explain how the sunnis have been effectively excluded from the "democracy" in Iraq. These are your words Gandalf.

The US sidelined sunnis from the start, which led to the revolt in Fallujah, and the protracted sunni insurgency. Maliki has further institutionalised it by cementing power though his "shadow state" described above. What little representation sunnis might enjoy in a functioning parliamentary democracy is well and trully rendered useless by Maliki's effective curtailing of Parliament's ability to check his power.

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2014 at 5:16pm:


My previous post explained it very clearly.

I'm not going to repeat myself so...

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 9^th, 2014 at 10:45am:


I believe your initial confusion was due to your incorrect belief that sunnis are a minority, but you have no such excuse now.

^ people can democratically decide to be undemocratic.

What do we call that?