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Economic Refugees? (Read 24226 times)
greggerypeccary
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #315 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:25am
 
King FriYAY II wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:23am:
Oh yes, how could anyone think that paying people to smuggle you across another countries border is illegal???



It's not illegal.

I can assure you.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #316 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:27am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:25am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:12am:
aquascoot wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 10:56am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 10:31am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 10:28am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 10:06am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 9:51am:
aquascoot wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 9:49am:
The legality or otherwise is of zero consequence to myself and  the 3 million people who live in suburban Sydney and suburban Melbourne and suburban Brisbane.

if you and Greg and Julian Burnside get excited about it, you obviously have your priorities all wrong.

Julain maybe not so much, because his income to pay for his yacht and his merc depends on issues like this , but why Australian citizens feel more compassion for people they've never met , then for battlers doing it tough in suburbia is beyond me.

My priority is to elevate concern for this , largely silent majority.
There are plenty of pedants voicing concerns for the boaties.
The squeaky wheel gets the oil, so its time for suburban Australia to speak and ask for recognition.
This they did at the last election.
This is democracy in action and should be applauded .
Last time I looked, its not illegal to fulfil the will of the Australian people.

The earth is flat argument continues, I see.

Also, barristers typically take on asylum seeker cases on a pro bono basis.




a) he won't believe you (nobody does anything for free)

b) he won't know what it means anyway (he'll be googling "U2 fan clubs")

It's sad when someone who doesn't even understand the word pro bono tries to speak for the majority.



aquaboy has trouble speaking for himself.

Attempts to speak for the majority will surely end in tears.



So you think you, alvine, Julian burnside and SHY are the majority Grin Grin.

Gillard and rudd did internal polling that made them change their position and reintroduce off shore processing.
My suspicion is that their polling told them the majority do, indeed, agree with me and not with you.
Thoughts? Wink


death penalty is also supported by a majority.
No taxes would be supported by a majority.
Free beer would be supported by a majority.

But it doesn't mean that any of those are good ideas, just like stepping away from our obligations to the refugee convention, without actually rescinding it.   Democracy is not about majority opinion rules, because democracy is about elected officials governing in our interest. And that includes the fact that many times elected officials need to do things that are "unpopular" by the majority, but it is in our interest. Like the GST, for example.

Also, I doubt very much that the majority would believe seeking asylum is ILLEGAL. Well, at least before the majority was dumbed down even further by this dumb government.



Explain to a suburban battler how the policy changes introduced by Rudd to weaken border protection were in their interest


When did I say they were? But it is also not in anyone's interest in this nation to completely disregard our obligations under a convention we have signed.
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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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King FriYAY II
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #317 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:28am
 
illegals....

So says the UN the verdict is in...

illegal entry
illegal entry
people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country

Grin

Grin Grin Grin


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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #318 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:28am
 
King FriYAY II wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:23am:
Oh yes, how could anyone think that paying people to smuggle you across another countries border is illegal???

Article 31 includes the term "illegal entry".

It is used in the context of stating that parties to the convention cannot penalise refugees as a result of their "illegal entry or presence" as long as they present to authorities "without delay" and "show good cause for their illegal entry or presence".

The verdict is in.....

Based on the definition set out in the United Nations people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country. That is the case even though these people have not committed any crime, nor broken any Australian or international law.

Bloody illegals.....

ignorance is bliss arguing again, friYAY? I would've thunk you were better than this.  Repeating won't change what I explained to you Smiley It is unlawful, not illegal. Sorry to disappoint.
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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #319 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:30am
 
King FriYAY II wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:28am:
illegals....

So says the UN the verdict is in...

illegal entry
illegal entry
people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country

Grin

Grin Grin Grin




Not according to the migration act which governs how we execute our obligations to the refugee convention.

Sorry friYAY, if you want it to be illegal you'll need to have the migration act changed Wink
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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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ian
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #320 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:31am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:30am:
King FriYAY II wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:28am:
illegals....

So says the UN the verdict is in...

illegal entry
illegal entry
people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country

Grin

Grin Grin Grin




Not according to the migration act which governs how we execute our obligations to the refugee convention.

Sorry friYAY, if you want it to be illegal you'll need to have the migration act changed Wink
Does it really? Show this.
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« Last Edit: Jul 14th, 2014 at 12:21pm by ian »  
 
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ian
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #321 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:32am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:25am:
King FriYAY II wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:23am:
Oh yes, how could anyone think that paying people to smuggle you across another countries border is illegal???



It's not illegal.

I can assure you.

we do\nt need your assurance, just facts. Paying people smugglers is most defintiley 100 percent illegal.
Quote:
Indonesian police have arrested more asylum seekers in the past year, but the increase in arrests more likely reflects an overall rise in the number of asylum seekers coming to Indonesia rather than greater police effectiveness. From January 2012 until September 2013, the Indonesian police arrested about 12,790 ‘irregular migrants’ (police statics do not differentiate between registered asylum seekers, recognised refugees and undocumented migrants) either while entering the country or, more often, while attempting to leave.

http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2013/11/26/How-effective-are-Indonesias-efforts-to-stop-asylum-seekers.aspx?COLLCC=3255609924&
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|dev|null
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #322 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:36am
 
22 pages of argument over whether or not people who claim or rather attempt to claim Asylum are genuine or not.

How can we know?  The Government ceased processing their claims properly way back in mid-2012!   Some people here seem to believe that granting Asylum should be the subject to a popularity contest, rather than the actual needs of people who are so desperate and so fed up waiting for the UN to process their claims that they're willing to risk their lives getting on a leaky boat.  Yet they ignore the ten times the number of Asylum Seekers who arrive by plane!

Truly some people are insane.   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #323 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:38am
 
ian wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:32am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:25am:
King FriYAY II wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:23am:
Oh yes, how could anyone think that paying people to smuggle you across another countries border is illegal???



It's not illegal.

I can assure you.

we do\nt need your assurance, just facts. Paying people smugglers is most defintiley 100 percent illegal.



100% wrong.

Start searching for the piece of legislation that supports your ridiculous claim.

I'll be here, waiting ...

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King FriYAY II
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #324 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:49am
 
I love the UN convention on refo's and the UN protocol on people smugglers!!

illegal entry
illegal entry
people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country


Grin Grin
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ian
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #325 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:49am
 
|dev|null wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:36am:
22 pages of argument over whether or not people who claim or rather attempt to claim Asylum are genuine or not.

How can we know?  The Government ceased processing their claims properly way back in mid-2012!   Some people here seem to believe that granting Asylum should be the subject to a popularity contest, rather than the actual needs of people who are so desperate and so fed up waiting for the UN to process their claims that they're willing to risk their lives getting on a leaky boat.  Yet they ignore the ten times the number of Asylum Seekers who arrive by plane!

Truly some people are insane.   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
Yet another example of someone who doesnt understand this issue at all. The ones arriving illegally by boat are not waiting to have UN claims recognised, thats why they come this way to avoid that process. Secondly, asylum seekers arriving by plane do so in a controlled manner on visas issued by the australian government.
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ian
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #326 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:50am
 
King FriYAY II wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:49am:
I love the UN convention on refo's and the UN protocol on people smugglers!!

illegal entry
illegal entry
people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country


Grin Grin
Correct, and it is illegal to pay people smugglers to do so.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #327 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:53am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:38am:
ian wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:32am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:25am:
King FriYAY II wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:23am:
Oh yes, how could anyone think that paying people to smuggle you across another countries border is illegal???



It's not illegal.

I can assure you.

we do\nt need your assurance, just facts. Paying people smugglers is most defintiley 100 percent illegal.



100% wrong.

Start searching for the piece of legislation that supports your ridiculous claim.

I'll be here, waiting ...



I suppose you're aware you rarely put your own argument and the majority of your posts are schoolyard retorts.
Hardly impressive.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Carl D
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #328 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:54am
 
|dev|null wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:36am:
22 pages of argument over whether or not people who claim or rather attempt to claim Asylum are genuine or not.


LOL.

Oh, it's been going on a lot longer than that.

The same people with the same tired old "arguments" have been going at it all day on here for years about illegals... oops, sorry, Greg... "asylum seekers".

One would think they would be tired of it by now (or at least found something more productive to do with their days).

I wouldn't be surprised if the Abbott Government has already started the process of withdrawing Australia from the useless, outdated UN Refugee Convention. The Prime Minister was talking about that as an option about 6 months ago. One can only hope.

The Government will have to keep it a "secret" so the "Refugee Advocates" (i.e. people who's only real concern is to make money out of the asylum seeker 'industry') won't go running off to the High Court and try to get it stopped.



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|dev|null
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Re: Economic Refugees?
Reply #329 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:58am
 
Carl D wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:54am:
|dev|null wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 11:36am:
22 pages of argument over whether or not people who claim or rather attempt to claim Asylum are genuine or not.


LOL.

Oh, it's been going on a lot longer than that.

The same people with the same tired old "arguments" have been going at it all day on here for years about illegals... oops, sorry, Greg... "asylum seekers".

One would think they would be tired of it by now (or at least found something more productive to do with their days).

I wouldn't be surprised if the Abbott Government has already started the process of withdrawing Australia from the useless, outdated UN Refugee Convention. The Prime Minister was talking about that as an option about 6 months ago. One can only hope.

The Government will have to keep it a "secret" so the "Refugee Advocates" (i.e. people who's only real concern is to make money out of the asylum seeker 'industry') won't go running off to the High Court and try to get it stopped.




Thanks for demonstrating my point for me.  You don't KNOW if they are "illegal immigrants" or not.  You don't KNOW if they are "economic refugees".  You ignore the Asylum Seekers who arrive by plane.  You ignore the real illegal immigrants who exist in their tens of thousands.   Instead you let your Xenophobia run your thinking for you.   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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