Australian Politics Forum - The cost of Palmers' demands

Phemanderac

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Re: The cost of Palmers' demands
Reply #30 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:42pm

I see a lot of posts in this thread, however, none of them actually have articulated exactly what the supposed "cost" is.

Ironically, now there is at least one poster who apparently cannot articulate what the exact cost of the carbon tax is, yet we apparently need to get rid of it because of the cost....

Here is the problem.

Mr Abbott campaigned hard on the savings that would be shared by ALL Australians with his repeal of the Carbon tax. Given the Carbon tax was not actually responsible for the majority of price gouging that went on, this was in effect a blatant lie.

Mr Palmer has merely played Mr Abbott about his own (Abbott's) lies. In effect, the Government cannot give a guarantee that business will pass on savings to the public from repealing the Carbon Tax. As such, however, if the Government acknowledges that it cannot give said pledge, the Government therefore acknowledges the lie in its own campaigning for office.

As such, this "COST" that is spoken of is yet another myth from ideological apologists and has no merit or validity.

The real cost to us is having a Government elected on a series of calculated lies....

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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: The cost of Palmers' demands Reply #31 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:48pm President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 8:53am: if I was abbott I would leave the mining tax in place... make changes to it so that it actually pays.. unlike the way that the incompetent Labor/Green coalition left it.. I never thought we'd agree on something. WOW
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Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85591 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: The cost of Palmers' demands Reply #32 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:49pm crunches popcorn - enjoys the stoush.. pours fresh beer I love it when the Merde strikes the fan in politics. Both sides of this circus have been handing it out to us out here for long enough now and I love to see them squirm. Get rid of both parties....
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The cost of Palmers' demands
Reply #33 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:50pm

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:42pm:

I see a lot of posts in this thread, however, none of them actually have articulated exactly what the supposed "cost" is.

Ironically, now there is at least one poster who apparently cannot articulate what the exact cost of the carbon tax is, yet we apparently need to get rid of it because of the cost....

Here is the problem.

Mr Abbott campaigned hard on the savings that would be shared by ALL Australians with his repeal of the Carbon tax. Given the Carbon tax was not actually responsible for the majority of price gouging that went on, this was in effect a blatant lie.

Mr Palmer has merely played Mr Abbott about his own (Abbott's) lies. In effect, the Government cannot give a guarantee that business will pass on savings to the public from repealing the Carbon Tax. As such, however, if the Government acknowledges that it cannot give said pledge, the Government therefore acknowledges the lie in its own campaigning for office.

As such, this "COST" that is spoken of is yet another myth from ideological apologists and has no merit or validity.

The real cost to us is having a Government elected on a series of calculated lies....

the biggest lie is that Australians will be better off because of the repeal of the tax. The only reason people MAY be better off is because the compensation stays. take that away and everyone is in the same position, showing that Tony is removing a working reform for no reason.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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aquascoot

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Re: The cost of Palmers' demands
Reply #34 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:51pm

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:37pm:

Cliff48 wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:28pm:

aquascoot:
Quote:

Tony should go on a bike ride round OZ or go ride a quad bike through an aboriginal reserve and declare Canberra officially closed.

He claimed thousands in expenses for a couple of hours 'charity' ride ..... what would a ride around Australia cost us in expenses?

Actually, whilst Canberra remains part of Australia he is not in a position to say it is closed, given Australia is apparently "open for business..."

No business going on down there.
Business people should copyright the word "business" and make sure it applies to "the useful application of capital to maintain productivity in an economy".
Canberra is nothing but a handbrake on business.
The carbon tax debacle is but one example.

Years of tooing and fro'ing.
Great skyscrapers full of public servants.
Business uncertainty.
No way to plan for the future.
An anchor on investment
Manufacturing uncertainty.
A bonus for crooks to drive up prices
An administrative nightmare.
1000's of hours of circular arguments, philibustering, guillitoining.
And at the end of the day, has probably not reduced the temperature by one one thousandth of a degree.
If you want to see an argument for why we need to cut Canberra out of every loop we can, look no further than this issue

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The cost of Palmers' demands
Reply #35 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:58pm

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:42pm:

I see a lot of posts in this thread, however, none of them actually have articulated exactly what the supposed "cost" is.

Ironically, now there is at least one poster who apparently cannot articulate what the exact cost of the carbon tax is, yet we apparently need to get rid of it because of the cost....

Here is the problem.

Mr Abbott campaigned hard on the savings that would be shared by ALL Australians with his repeal of the Carbon tax. Given the Carbon tax was not actually responsible for the majority of price gouging that went on, this was in effect a blatant lie.

Mr Palmer has merely played Mr Abbott about his own (Abbott's) lies. In effect, the Government cannot give a guarantee that business will pass on savings to the public from repealing the Carbon Tax. As such, however, if the Government acknowledges that it cannot give said pledge, the Government therefore acknowledges the lie in its own campaigning for office.

As such, this "COST" that is spoken of is yet another myth from ideological apologists and has no merit or validity.

The real cost to us is having a Government elected on a series of calculated lies....

As before - I've posted previously links on reasons for rising power costs - easy to find.

The blame is fairly and squarely on the ideology of 'privatisation' with all of the traps for the end user - Joe/Jo Bloggs - in costs of hydra-headed 'management' teams, 'ceos' and 'board members'.

A constant in all of this is the grab by these 'ceos' and such for the mega dollars for running the show, when most of them, as someone said about the Mafia in the US, couldn't run a corner store.

It is this multitude of new 'ceos', 'board members' and 'management teams' that are the cause of the cost rises. In effect - the over-focus on 'business' is the direct creator of our current economic malaise of struggling workers, rising wages, rising costs, and inadequate revenue to government due to sidelining many potential income and other taxpayers through lack of finances.

Like ToJo - the only solution these 'ceos' etc have to diminishing real returns is to constantly raise prices (ToJo loses revenue - raises taxes on the poor - same same) - thus making the whole situation worse for all.

Plain Dumb if you ask me, and the sooner governments accept that 'privatisation' is a failed policy, the better off we'll all be.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Phemanderac

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Re: The cost of Palmers' demands
Reply #36 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:59pm

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:51pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:37pm:

Cliff48 wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 12:28pm:

aquascoot:
Quote:

Tony should go on a bike ride round OZ or go ride a quad bike through an aboriginal reserve and declare Canberra officially closed.

He claimed thousands in expenses for a couple of hours 'charity' ride ..... what would a ride around Australia cost us in expenses?

Actually, whilst Canberra remains part of Australia he is not in a position to say it is closed, given Australia is apparently "open for business..."

No business going on down there.
Business people should copyright the word "business" and make sure it applies to "the useful application of capital to maintain productivity in an economy".
Canberra is nothing but a handbrake on business.
The carbon tax debacle is but one example.

Years of tooing and fro'ing.
Great skyscrapers full of public servants.
Business uncertainty.
No way to plan for the future.
An anchor on investment
Manufacturing uncertainty.
A bonus for crooks to drive up prices
An administrative nightmare.
1000's of hours of circular arguments, philibustering, guillitoining.
And at the end of the day, has probably not reduced the temperature by one one thousandth of a degree.
If you want to see an argument for why we need to cut Canberra out of every loop we can, look no further than this issue

Yes, but it is still a part of Australia...

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

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Phemanderac

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Re: The cost of Palmers' demands
Reply #37 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 1:04pm

By the way, when business does actually start to resolve some issues and put something back to the wider public, well, then that will be self evident and, therefore, there will be no need for further propaganda....

However, in the meantime, we (Australia) actually do need some brakes applied, because some in business have actually demonstrated the exact opposite of all of the above. Other businesses seem to either excuse this, ignore it or justify it and, usually, point the finger at some public owned operation, as if that justifies their behaviour.

I am not opposed to business running their business, I am opposed to them doing whatever they want without any regulatory support for the broader community.

No argument has ever been presented that supports private sector providing public services that is consistent with the realities demonstrated in privatisation. In fact, privatised companies are demonstrably not more efficient, nor do they keep consumer costs down, nor are they any fairer or better to deal with than when the business was owned by the public sector.

Business owners appear to fail to grasp the idea that the country is not a business and, consequently, should not be run like one.

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

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longweekend58

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Re: The cost of Palmers' demands
Reply #38 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 4:06pm

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:57am:

cods wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:48am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:38am:

Karnal wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:30am:

Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele.

The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later.

Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge.

Its not a matter of wrecking balls or grown ups.
Palmer will play them and the longer he does the more incompetent they look.
Like a festering absess, go in hard with the sharp steel.

politics is all about winning.

The people don't want to have to vote again, they don't want the carbon tax,
Attack now, call palmers bluff and he may lose some votes.

Wait 2 years and its Abbott who looks totally weak.

The time to strike is NOW, whilst the public are ready to take it out on palmer for creating this mess.

there are an awful lot of vindictive people out there who are enjoying this mess...thats the problem.. they dont see this person as a wrecking ball for the country only abbott....and if he goes for another election it wont include the senate..

where he will still control.. what a mess those who elected him have on their hands...

has anyone noticed how piggy stalks off when hes said his few words....]heading for the feeding trough no doubt] never stays around for any tough questions..

anyway I am not surprised by this oaf...not to be trusted at all I have said that all along...he is a nasty piece of goods..

He's not got the right temperament for politics.
A shrewd opponent would make mincemeat of him.
Tony's simply a bit of a retard when it comes to this sort of machievellian stuff.
John Howard, Peter Costello....they would have played clive, not let clive play them.
Goes to "fitness to rule"
If you let an oaf like clive and a motoring enthusiast (lol) and people like SHY and Milne get the better of you , it speaks volumes that you aren't fit to rule.

Howard was also having to deal with senate issues but NO ONE has had to deal with a wrecking ball like the fat fool. Not since One Nation in the QLD parliament has a govt had to deal with oafs and fools in positions of power.

Abbott is a shrewd operator. Not up to the level of Howard and Costello but certainly far, far above the last two PMs who were quite duds in political strategy.

The current situation is unique in that Palmer is really only after causing havoc for Abbott and that is not how any party is supposed to operate. They are expected to oppose, amend and seek to improve things. But Palmer is only seeking to halt the function of govt.

This is a new situation and one demanding new answers. Palmer actually IS a fool and far clever people than he on both sides of politics are aiming to have him removed.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: The cost of Palmers' demands
Reply #39 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 4:31pm

Tony has a (rather dubious) mandate to remove the carbon tax.

He certainly didnt run on a ticket of removing all the climate authorities, or increasing taxes (carbon tax offsets), and all the other stuff he's bundling with the carbon tax removal policy.

Palmer is saying, you can remove carbon tax, if thats all you do.

Whats the problem ?

If Abbott must increase taxes, he should have mentioned that before last eleciton.

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Aussie

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Re: The cost of Palmers' demands
Reply #40 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 4:40pm

Quote:

The current situation is unique in that Palmer is really only after causing havoc for Abbott and that is not how any party is supposed to operate. They are expected to oppose, amend and seek to improve things. But Palmer is only seeking to halt the function of govt.

Hardly unique at all. Prior to September, 2013, that's is exactly what Abbott was doing. He wanted to destroy the ALP's Government at any cost. I give you a simple example. Peter Slipper, who is irrelevant now, but was made the centre of attention of a carefully crafted ploy set up by senior LNP people. James Ashby ~ who?

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DaS Energy

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Re: The cost of Palmers' demands
Reply #41 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 4:41pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 4:06pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:57am:

cods wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:48am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:38am:

Karnal wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 9:30am:

Eric Abetz must have a hotline to the editor of the Tele.

The Libs agreed to Palmer’s "wrecking ball" demands, and only realized their mistake later.

Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge.

Its not a matter of wrecking balls or grown ups.
Palmer will play them and the longer he does the more incompetent they look.
Like a festering absess, go in hard with the sharp steel.

politics is all about winning.

The people don't want to have to vote again, they don't want the carbon tax,
Attack now, call palmers bluff and he may lose some votes.

Wait 2 years and its Abbott who looks totally weak.

The time to strike is NOW, whilst the public are ready to take it out on palmer for creating this mess.

there are an awful lot of vindictive people out there who are enjoying this mess...thats the problem.. they dont see this person as a wrecking ball for the country only abbott....and if he goes for another election it wont include the senate..

where he will still control.. what a mess those who elected him have on their hands...

has anyone noticed how piggy stalks off when hes said his few words....]heading for the feeding trough no doubt] never stays around for any tough questions..

anyway I am not surprised by this oaf...not to be trusted at all I have said that all along...he is a nasty piece of goods..

He's not got the right temperament for politics.
A shrewd opponent would make mincemeat of him.
Tony's simply a bit of a retard when it comes to this sort of machievellian stuff.
John Howard, Peter Costello....they would have played clive, not let clive play them.
Goes to "fitness to rule"
If you let an oaf like clive and a motoring enthusiast (lol) and people like SHY and Milne get the better of you , it speaks volumes that you aren't fit to rule.

Howard was also having to deal with senate issues but NO ONE has had to deal with a wrecking ball like the fat fool. Not since One Nation in the QLD parliament has a govt had to deal with oafs and fools in positions of power.

Abbott is a shrewd operator. Not up to the level of Howard and Costello but certainly far, far above the last two PMs who were quite duds in political strategy.

The current situation is unique in that Palmer is really only after causing havoc for Abbott and that is not how any party is supposed to operate. They are expected to oppose, amend and seek to improve things. But Palmer is only seeking to halt the function of govt.

This is a new situation and one demanding new answers. Palmer actually IS a fool and far clever people than he on both sides of politics are aiming to have him removed.

Personally I hope Abbott gets wind of what's happening over at the AEC . Palmer United Party cant be salvaged from their unlawful application to be registered political party. The three shall's of the Australian Electoral ACT 1918 not happen. 1. Palmer United Party shall have an identified Secretary. 2. The identified Secretary shall present the application. 3. Should 1 and 2 not occur the AEC shall not register the application. No if no buts no maybes.
At the moment the AEC is tying itself in knots to fob of the facts and evidence of the AEC Extracts. Not that I can blame them given the costs they now face.

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cods

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Re: The cost of Palmers' demands
Reply #42 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 5:41pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 4:40pm:

[quote]The current situation is unique in that Palmer is really only after causing havoc for Abbott and that is not how any party is supposed to operate. They are expected to oppose, amend and seek to improve things. But Palmer is only seeking to halt the function of govt.

Hardly unique at all. Prior to September, 2013, that's is exactly what Abbott was doing. He wanted to destroy the ALP's Government at any cost. I give you a simple example. Peter Slipper, who is irrelevant now, but was made the centre of attention of a carefully crafted ploy set up by senior LNP people. James Ashby ~ who?[/quote]

hilarious.....so slipper basically stopped govt did he????

yeah right.. PUP have gone back on their word.. the word they promised prior to the election they would vote out the carbon tax.

now we see petty I WANTS and I wont vote unless its specific to MY WANTS...sorry matey we know you relish this and want it but you will rue the day..

this is not what the senate is for and you know it..give a megalomaniac the power and what do you get.???.

well its what you want a country paralysed.by an idiot..so good luck with that....

so you carry i voted for PUP sticker on your cab bumper bar?????I bet your not game too.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75379 Gender:	Re: The cost of Palmers' demands Reply #43 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 5:44pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 11^th, 2014 at 4:06pm: NO ONE has had to deal with a wrecking ball like the fat fool. as if Abbott was any better when he was in opposition
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mark hadfield New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 25 Gender:	Re: The cost of Palmers' demands Reply #44 - Jul 11^th, 2014 at 7:27pm Interesting times. As one might have been heard to say - "tu quoque, Brute! (L.), and thou too, Brutus"; and moreover, "the measure of a man is what he does with power" (Pittacus).
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