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What they said about Islam ... (Read 6379 times)
Grand Duke Imam Mahdi
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #30 - Jul 18th, 2014 at 1:16pm
 
|dev|null wrote on Jul 18th, 2014 at 1:15pm:
Of course you'd think it sums Islam up.  Most knowledgeable historians know otherwise.    Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


Whats up with your more powerful id socky sock sock ?
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Air is provided by God, not the muslim fictitious one, enjoy it while you can.
 
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Adamant
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #31 - Jul 18th, 2014 at 6:41pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 18th, 2014 at 12:35pm:
no innovation during the islamic golden age?

Laughable.


Your comment adds nothing.

Who are you to question Bertrand Russell. All you are is a muslim.
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #32 - Jul 18th, 2014 at 7:11pm
 

I rarely comment here due to threats from the muslim mod
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Modern Classic Right Wing
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #33 - Jul 18th, 2014 at 8:51pm
 
Adamant wrote on Jul 18th, 2014 at 6:41pm:
Who are you to question Bertrand Russell. All you are is a muslim.


Bertrand Russel was a great philosopher, but he was not a historian - let alone an islamic one. He was not in any way shape or form a qualified expert in anything islamic.

Who are you to question actual experts in islamic history like Bernard Lewis?

The list of innovations from the islamic world is endless. From advances in surgery to revolutionary discoveries in astronomy. The idea that muslim scholars during the islamic age were primarily translators and made no significant contributions in scientific innovation, is, as I say, laughable. Even if the claim comes from a great philosopher.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #34 - Jul 18th, 2014 at 8:53pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 18th, 2014 at 7:11pm:
I rarely comment here due to threats from the muslim mod


Please enlighten me sprint - preferably with evidence.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Adamant
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #35 - Jul 18th, 2014 at 9:04pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 18th, 2014 at 8:51pm:
Adamant wrote on Jul 18th, 2014 at 6:41pm:
Who are you to question Bertrand Russell. All you are is a muslim.


Bertrand Russel was a great philosopher, but he was not a historian - let alone an islamic one. He was not in any way shape or form a qualified expert in anything islamic.

Who are you to question actual experts in islamic history like Bernard Lewis?

The list of innovations from the islamic world is endless. From advances in surgery to revolutionary discoveries in astronomy. The idea that muslim scholars during the islamic age were primarily translators and made no significant contributions in scientific innovation, is, as I say, laughable. Even if the claim comes from a great philosopher.


We are posting off topic! I fear a ban! But to appease your insatiable appetite for the ridiculous I offer this.

History of Science: Setting the record straight. Thread is 80% LIES go check it out!

Algebra was invented by the Hindu for instance.

The thread was written by muslims for muslims to alter the history for muslims to lie to the dimmi.
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Grand Duke Imam Mahdi
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #36 - Jul 18th, 2014 at 9:13pm
 
Grandlaf reminds me of Dicky Knee  Grin Grin Grin
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #37 - Jul 25th, 2014 at 9:39am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 18th, 2014 at 8:51pm:
Bertrand Russel was a great philosopher, but he was not a historian - let alone an islamic one. He was not in any way shape or form a qualified expert in anything islamic.




See, Gandy? Even with you, the modern, moderate Muslim, religious authority still trumps independent thought.

Taqlid trumps ijtihad. This is why Islam has been stagnant and backward for centuries.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #38 - Jul 25th, 2014 at 1:32pm
 
Your right S - we definitely should not criticise individual thought...

unless of course its independent objective observers like Bernard Lewis, or anyone else who doesn't "tow the line"
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #39 - Jul 25th, 2014 at 5:55pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 25th, 2014 at 1:32pm:
Your right S - we definitely should not criticise individual thought...

unless of course its independent objective observers like Bernard Lewis, or anyone else who doesn't "tow the line"


Islam is one of the world's great religions. Let me be explicit about what I, as a historian of Islam who is not a Muslim, mean by that. Islam has brought comfort and peace of mind to countless millions of men and women. It has given dignity and meaning to drab and impoverished lives. It has taught people of different races to live in brotherhood and people of different creeds to live side by side in reasonable tolerance. It inspired a great civilization in which others besides Muslims lived creative and useful lives and which, by its achievement, enriched the whole world. But Islam, like other religions, has also known periods when it inspired in some of its followers a mood of hatred and violence. It is our misfortune that part, though by no means all or even most, of the Muslim world is now going through such a period, and that much, though again not all, of that hatred is directed against us.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1990/09/the-roots-of-muslim-rage/304...
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #40 - Jul 26th, 2014 at 1:21pm
 
Good article. S if you quote this article as someone who approves and agrees with it, then I am greatly encouraged.

Quote:
The movement nowadays called fundamentalism is not the only Islamic tradition. There are others, more tolerant, more open, that helped to inspire the great achievements of Islamic civilization in the past, and we may hope that these other traditions will in time prevail. But before this issue is decided there will be a hard struggle, in which we of the West can do little or nothing. Even the attempt might do harm, for these are issues that Muslims must decide among themselves. And in the meantime we must take great care on all sides to avoid the danger of a new era of religious wars, arising from the exacerbation of differences and the revival of ancient prejudices.


food for thought?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #41 - Jul 26th, 2014 at 2:11pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 26th, 2014 at 1:21pm:
Good article. S if you quote this article as someone who approves and agrees with it, then I am greatly encouraged.

Quote:
The movement nowadays called fundamentalism is not the only Islamic tradition. There are others, more tolerant, more open, that helped to inspire the great achievements of Islamic civilization in the past, and we may hope that these other traditions will in time prevail. But before this issue is decided there will be a hard struggle, in which we of the West can do little or nothing. Even the attempt might do harm, for these are issues that Muslims must decide among themselves. And in the meantime we must take great care on all sides to avoid the danger of a new era of religious wars, arising from the exacerbation of differences and the revival of ancient prejudices.


food for thought?


Oh, I think S will have a few problems with that one, G. In old-boy sprecht, avoiding religious wars is called cowardice.

The same applies on the home front. Being nice to the tinted neighbours is considered spineless. No one has the right to not be offended, you see, and all should be offended at every opportunity.

S, you see, is civilised. It’s what makes him superior to these awful apologist types who blather on about exacerbating differences and reviving ancient prejudices.

The tinted races are the enemy. The tinted races have always been the enemy. Always, absolutely, never ever.

It’s simple science. Correlation not causation, innit.
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #42 - Oct 5th, 2014 at 9:03am
 
Allah Made Me Do It

September 29, 2014 by Daniel Greenfield 142 CommentsDaniel Greenfield, a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, is a New York writer focusing on radical Islam. He is completing a book on the international challenges America faces in the 21st century.2.7K216199 Print This PostStop me if you’ve heard this story before.A Muslim convert who recently became very religious beheads a woman while reportedly shouting Islamic phrases. The authorities rush to convince everyone in sight that it has nothing to do with Islam.I’m not talking about Alton Nolen in Oklahoma at the end of September, but Nicholas Salvador in the UK at the beginning of September. Salvador, a Nigerian Muslim convert, beheaded an 82-year-old European woman with a foot-long blade. Nolen killed a 54-year-old American woman with a 10-inch blade.The bios of both men are fairly similar to the beheaders of British soldier Lee Rigby. The perpetrators were Nigerian converts to Islam. Alton Nolen was a black convert to Islam. They had a history of criminal behavior followed by a conversion to Islam and the inevitable bloody ending.On his Facebook page, Nolen posted, “Sharia law is coming!!!” The killers of Lee Rigby had chanted for Sharia law in the streets of London. That is the same Sharia law of stonings and beheadings.It is the law of the Koran which states, “When you meet the unbelievers in Jihad smite at their necks until you have slaughtered many of them.” (Koran 47:4)Or as Nolen quoted after posting a gory beheading photo on his Facebook page, “Thus do we find the clear precedent that explains the peculiar penchant of Islamic terrorists to behead their victims: it is merely another precedent bestowed by their Prophet.”The quote underneath the beheading photo backed that up, “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off of them.”(Quran 8:9-13)An unbeliever is anyone who isn’t a Muslim.This latest “Nothing to do with Islam” atrocity follows the Islamic State’s beheading of two Americans. These acts were admired by an Oklahoma City nursing home worker who was arrested for threatening a female co-worker with an ISIS style beheading on account of her being a Christian.Again, nothing to do with Islam. Much like the Islamic State beheadings which we have been told also have nothing to do with Islam.This sort of “Nothing to do with Islam” beheading pops up now and again.A decade ago Ariel Selloul was nearly decapitated in Texas by Mohammed Ali Alayed. Mo had recently gotten religion and become a devout Muslim. His victim was Jewish. Before Mohammed got serious about Islam, the two men had been friends.Again, it had nothing to do with Islam. At least that’s what the authorities said.Around the same time a Jewish disc jockey was murdered in Paris by a Muslim friend who announced, “I killed a Jew, I will go to paradise. Allah made me do it.”The Muslim killer, Adel Amastaibou, had threatened a Rabbi and a pregnant Jewish woman before. Instead the authorities decided that he was mentally ill.Nothing to do with Islam. Not a thing.And so we have a rash of mysterious beheadings and vicious stabbings that we know nothing about except that they have nothing to do with Islam. The more they obviously seem to have something to do with Islam, the more it has to be denied that they had anything to do with Islam.Alton and Adel, Mohammed, Mujahid and Ismail, the latter two being the Muslim names of the Lee Rigby killers, have nothing to do with Islam. Even the Islamic State has nothing to do with Islam.And yet Alton Nolen decided that beheading had quite a lot to do with Islam. All he had to do to figure that out was open a Koran. Expecting to convince Muslims to believe that the Koran has nothing to do with Islam will be even harder than convincing them that beheadings and the Islamic State have nothing to do with Islam.You might as well argue that Islam has nothing to do with Islam.The CVE programs under Barack Obama keep promising to counter the Islamic narrative on Twitter, but instead Twitter is full of ISIS Jihadists displaying severed heads as trophies and quoting the appropriate verses from the Koran.Obama denounces ISIS as un-Islamic  for beheading people while leading a coalition against them which includes Muslim countries that use beheading as an Islamic punishment. The Saudis recently beheaded a man accused of sorcery. What’s the difference between the Islamic State and the Saudis? They both have lots of oil, terrorists and a penchant for beheading people, but the Saudis have better public relations.Maybe when the Islamic State starts funding chairs at Georgetown and UCLA, and donating to the Clinton Global Initiative, it’ll start getting better press.The Saudis can’t possibly be un-Islamic because the establishment’s official definition of Islam comes from them. Even the idea of denying that the Islamic State is Islamic is a Saudi strategy. But if Alton Nolen is un-Islamic then ISIS is un-Islamic and if ISIS is un-Islamic then Saudi Arabia is un-Islamic. And then Islam, whose holy book contains numerous verses calling for the brutal murder of non-Muslims, must also be un-Islamic.Perhaps then there really isn’t an Islam. Or rather there are two Islams.One is the oriental Unitarianism of the Western imagination whose practitioners are liberals with prayer rugs.
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #43 - Oct 5th, 2014 at 9:05am
 
One is the oriental Unitarianism of the Western imagination whose practitioners are liberals with prayer rugs. The other is a grim relentless Jihad of murderous men who chant the Koran while severing heads. This is the Islam of the Arabian imagination. It is not always what it is, but to them it is the purity of what it should be.The convert to Islam rarely becomes a liberal with a prayer rug. To become devout is to become more certain, not less certain. And that certainty ends in Jihad. It ends in a murder commanded by Allah.The real Islam’s symbols carry powerful meanings. The beheading is the final and ultimate meaning. By killing non-Muslims in the name of Allah, its followers become Allah, they gain the power of life and death, to kill and enslave, to rob and rape; they become the murderous masters of creation.When they say that “Allah made me do it” what they really mean is that the part of them that wants to kill, to rob and rape, to burn and kidnap, made them do it. By submitting to Allah, the Muslim becomes Allah. When he kills, it is Allah killing. His religion is reducible to his will to kill. This is ISIS. This is Islam.It has nothing to do with the imaginary Islam of the liberal. It has everything to do with the real Islam.



It is completely unacceptable to say that Islam has nothing to do with Islamic beheadings. A complete lie.
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Re: What they said about Islam ...
Reply #44 - Oct 5th, 2014 at 10:23am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 14th, 2014 at 12:43pm:
criticism of present day muslims is valid, and must be addressed. However it is a phase the great religion/civilization is going through - like all great civilizations go through dark times.

I'd guess that there are a great number of Muslims who would welcome the rise of a moderate Islamic doctrine... But this is one ideal where Islam and Christianity part company (in terms of a text's ultimate authority over temporal matters).

There is no place for a 'second prophet' within Islam - One who can reinterpret the founding text to the degree that is possible within Christianity.

This is why the Satanic verses is a fault line within Islam... The notion that if Mohammed was deceived (at least) once by Satan, who can say that he was not deceived elsewhere?
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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