Australian Politics Forum - The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists

Soren

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Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists
Reply #30 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:43pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 9:58pm:

Arguments going on, within Mosques and communities across Australia, just not in public

What are they afraid of?

1. They are afraid of retaliation from the tough eggs (aka no-brow bludgahadeen)
2. they observe the Islamic doctrine of not arguing wiv da bruvvers in front of da infidels. Plus tribalism, clannishness, Cosa Nostra, whathaveyou.
3. bit of both 1 and 2.

There are very few Muslims who are openly speaking out for a need to reform Islam. The ones that do are promptly ostracised if not killed as betrayers, Western stooges and the like. There is NO strong, FREE popular Islamic voice for reform.
Hirsi Ali was in hiding for years and is still under protection. All others are writing and speaking incognito or under pseudonyms because the fear of evident deadly response to any criticism of Islam.

Mohammed being the 'final' prophet is what will ultimately fvckk Islam. It is Islam's 'scientific socialism, it's 'arian science' its unalterable truth which is an obviously stupid and outsized claim. It will send it to the way of the Soviets and Nazis all other super-rationalist dogmas. It is a corner that Islam has painted itself into and getting out of that corner will mean the end of Islam. This is what makes Islam brittle and it will not survive as anything but the troglodyte ideology of the world.

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« Last Edit: Jul 18^th, 2014 at 12:19pm by Soren »

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Soren

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Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists
Reply #31 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:44pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:53pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:22pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 12:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 9:58pm:

Here's another good question for you, Soren. Who are the main informers on Islamist "supporters, enablers, sympathisers and collaborators," to the intelligence services?

Apostates?

In reality, its their fellow Muslims who don't agree with them, their beliefs or their tactics.

How do you know?

Who else could it be, Soren? Who else would be intimate enough to know what they're saying/proposing/doing? Roll Eyes

ASIO?

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Grand Duke Imam Mahdi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 564 Gender:	Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists Reply #32 - Jul 18^th, 2014 at 1:17pm Stats don't say they are slow for no reason.
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Brian Ross

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Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists
Reply #33 - Jul 18^th, 2014 at 7:42pm

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:43pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 9:58pm:

Arguments going on, within Mosques and communities across Australia, just not in public

What are they afraid of?

1. They are afraid of retaliation from the tough eggs (aka no-brow bludgahadeen)
2. they observe the Islamic doctrine of not arguing wiv da bruvvers in front of da infidels. Plus tribalism, clannishness, Cosa Nostra, whathaveyou.
3. bit of both 1 and 2.

4. Perhaps they believe they won't get a fair deal from an MSM which is dedicated to sensationalise anything to do with Muslims and portray all Muslims in the worse possible light to help shore up your Islamophobia?

Quote:

There are very few Muslims who are openly speaking out for a need to reform Islam. The ones that do are promptly ostracised if not killed as betrayers, Western stooges and the like. There is NO strong, FREE popular Islamic voice for reform.

Really? What about this man? He's sadly departed now but the organisation he headed, still strongly favours modernisation and preaches it.

Then we have this man and his organisation, which preaches modernism for Islam:

Of course, being in only the most populous Islamic nation and the most modern Islamic nations respectively, they wouldn't be on your radar, now would they, Soren, centred as it is on Middle-Eastern Islam, like all good Madrassa graduates. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Hirsi Ali was in hiding for years and is still under protection. All others are writing and speaking incognito or under pseudonyms because the fear of evident deadly response to any criticism of Islam.

Yet Gus Dur and Anwar Ibrahim are not in hiding, now are they, Soren.

Perhaps it's the nature of the criticism - whether it's constructive or destructive in nature?

Quote:

Mohammed being the 'final' prophet is what will ultimately fvckk Islam. It is Islam's 'scientific socialism, it's 'arian science' its unalterable truth which is an obviously stupid and outsized claim. It will send it to the way of the Soviets and Nazis all other super-rationalist dogmas. It is a corner that Islam has painted itself into and getting out of that corner will mean the end of Islam. This is what makes Islam brittle and it will not survive as anything but the troglodyte ideology of the world.

You know, Christianity maintained the same beliefs but about Jesus Christ and how the Bible was divinely inspired, Soren. However, the modern demands of the world overcame them. You seem rather uncharitable in not believing the Islamic world could not experience it's own renaissance and enlightenment. Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists
Reply #34 - Jul 18^th, 2014 at 7:43pm

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:44pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:53pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:22pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 12:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 9:58pm:

Here's another good question for you, Soren. Who are the main informers on Islamist "supporters, enablers, sympathisers and collaborators," to the intelligence services?

Apostates?

In reality, its their fellow Muslims who don't agree with them, their beliefs or their tactics.

How do you know?

Who else could it be, Soren? Who else would be intimate enough to know what they're saying/proposing/doing? Roll Eyes

ASIO?

Being deliberately obtuse, Soren? OK, I'll play your game and lead you along the road to enlightenment. Who tells ASIO? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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moses

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Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists
Reply #35 - Jul 19^th, 2014 at 6:55am

Their surveillance devices (audio & visual).

Their trained field operatives.

A.S.I.O. wouldn't just sit by the phone, waiting for some informant to ring in.

I am loving the way islam, muslims and their sniveling subservient sycophants, who continually apologizes for and excuses islamic barbarity, are sinking deeper and deeper into the quagmire of: depraved human rights atrocities (on the muslims part), weak gutless lies and self hatred (on the part of the muslims bootlicking toady & apologists)

The wheel is turning.

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Brian Ross

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Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists
Reply #36 - Jul 19^th, 2014 at 10:12am

moses wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 6:55am:

Their surveillance devices (audio & visual).

Their trained field operatives.

A.S.I.O. wouldn't just sit by the phone, waiting for some informant to ring in.

Funnily enough, they often do, Moses. Their "trained field operatives" often need to recruit local informants, particularly in a relatively closed-knit community like the Muslim one, where most people know one another. It is their only way to actually penetrate what is occurring. This is counter-intelligence operations 101, which you can pick up reading any of the better histories of MI5/FBI/ASIO.

[Usual diatribe against Muslims deleted because it serves no value]

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists
Reply #37 - Jul 19^th, 2014 at 10:36am

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 7:43pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:44pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:53pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:22pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 12:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 9:58pm:

Here's another good question for you, Soren. Who are the main informers on Islamist "supporters, enablers, sympathisers and collaborators," to the intelligence services?

Apostates?

In reality, its their fellow Muslims who don't agree with them, their beliefs or their tactics.

How do you know?

Who else could it be, Soren? Who else would be intimate enough to know what they're saying/proposing/doing? Roll Eyes

ASIO?

Being deliberately obtuse, Soren? OK, I'll play your game and lead you along the road to enlightenment. Who tells ASIO? Roll Eyes

Their undercover agents and their eveasdropping/surveillence regime.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists
Reply #38 - Jul 19^th, 2014 at 10:56am

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 7:42pm:

Yet Gus Dur and Anwar Ibrahim are not in hiding, now are they, Soren.

Perhaps it's the nature of the criticism - whether it's constructive or destructive in nature?

There are countless islamic reformers who are not hiding - quite the opposite.

Including this guy - a leading peace activist in India for many decades, now in his 90s and still going strong:

Quote:

Maulana Wahiduddin Khan (born January 1, 1925) is a noted Islamic scholar and peace activist.[1] He has received, among others, the Demiurgus Peace International Award, under the patronage of the former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev; the Padma Bhushan,[2] India's third highest civilian honour; the National Citizen’s Award, presented by Mother Teresa and the Rajiv Gandhi National Sadbhavana Award (2009).[3] He has translated the Quran in simple and contemporary English and wrote a commentary on the Quran|[4] and gives lectures on ETV Urdu, Zee Salaam, Bridges TV, ITV, ARY Digital, QTV, Aaj TV, etc

Quote:

Maulana Wahiduddin Khan is a noted Islamic Scholar in India and has published several books. His advice to Muslims has been to not treat unpleasant or unwanted situations as problems as this would only yield negative results. That is, one must not try to eliminate them or lodge complaints or protests against them. In fact, one should take such situations as challenges, and positively work towards overcoming them.[

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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hermoine Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 364	Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists Reply #39 - Jul 19^th, 2014 at 11:01am I wonder how he feels about Salman Rushdie?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists
Reply #40 - Jul 19^th, 2014 at 11:12am

hermoine wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 11:01am:

I wonder how he feels about Salman Rushdie?

Quote:

What about stereotyping of Muslims as terrorist in media and film industry?

Muslims are themselves to blame for it. Because Muslims always reacted negatively. For example, when Salman Rushdie published his book, Satanic Verses, all Muslims cried “Kill the author, Kill the author. That is terrorism. How can you say to kill the author, you have no right. Only judicial system has right to issue a verdict. Who are you to do that? You cannot take law in your hand. So when they called to kill the author, according to modern norms it is an act of terrorism. Muslims always try to kill people, sometimes they get success and sometimes not. For example in Pakistan, they have killed so many people without judicial verdict. That is terrorism. According to my definition, terrorism is use of arms by any agency other than state. You have no right to say kill Rushdie. You can publish another book, you can take the case to court. How can you say to kill this or that man?

http://muslimmirror.com/eng/ignore-rushdie-vishwaroopam-focus-on-education-wahid...

Quote:

Violent protests against Danish cartoonist (Kurt Westergaard) and Salman Rushdie for their anti-Islamic views were a waste of energy. If someone writes against the Prophet Muhammad, we should have sound knowledge to dislodge his propaganda and prove him wrong. We should be well-equipped with logic and reasons to counter unscrupulous elements who want to create confusion with regard to Islam.

Those who embraced Islam in early ages were the opponents of Prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad never expressed anger against them or awarded any kind of punishment. Exhibiting high moral and character, Prophet Muhammad converted his enemies into loyalists and trusted friends.

http://khabarsouthasia.com/en_GB/articles/apwi/articles/features/2013/05/01/feat...

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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hermoine Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 364	Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists Reply #41 - Jul 19^th, 2014 at 11:19am Prophet Muhammad never expressed anger against them or awarded any kind of punishment.
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moses

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Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists
Reply #42 - Jul 19^th, 2014 at 11:41am

You have to shake your head at the stupidity of muslims and their apologists all right.

gandalf wrote: Quote:

Those who embraced Islam in early ages were the opponents of Prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad never expressed anger against them or awarded any kind of punishment. Exhibiting high moral and character, Prophet Muhammad converted his enemies into loyalists and trusted friends.

What a load lies.

Do you expect people to believe you?

The qur'an is riddled with commands to rape, torture and kill people who opposed islam and muhammad.

muslims and their fawning apologists = lies, lies and more lies

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« Last Edit: Jul 19^th, 2014 at 11:46am by moses »

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Brian Ross

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Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists
Reply #43 - Jul 19^th, 2014 at 12:37pm

Soren wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 10:36am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 18^th, 2014 at 7:43pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 8:44pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:53pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 7:22pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 12:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 9:58pm:

Here's another good question for you, Soren. Who are the main informers on Islamist "supporters, enablers, sympathisers and collaborators," to the intelligence services?

Apostates?

In reality, its their fellow Muslims who don't agree with them, their beliefs or their tactics.

How do you know?

Who else could it be, Soren? Who else would be intimate enough to know what they're saying/proposing/doing? Roll Eyes

ASIO?

Being deliberately obtuse, Soren? OK, I'll play your game and lead you along the road to enlightenment. Who tells ASIO? Roll Eyes

Their undercover agents and their eveasdropping/surveillence regime.

So, absolutely no input from informers then? Really? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The growing threat of Islam's immigrant activists
Reply #44 - Jul 19^th, 2014 at 12:38pm

hermoine wrote on Jul 19^th, 2014 at 11:19am:

Prophet Muhammad never expressed anger against them or awarded any kind of punishment.

Give credit where credit's due - you asked what his opinion was about the Rushdie episode, no doubt assuming that it was along the lines of "garr - kill the infidel".

And once again we see the absurdity of the anti-islam crowd: you demand that muslims stand up and criticise intolerance and extremism amongst muslims - and yet when they do, you laugh them off as ignorant of islamic doctrine.

Give credit where credit's due - islam is not going away, the best you can hope for is for it to reform. And that is never going to happen whilst the reformers are continually ridiculed and marginalised.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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