Australian Politics Forum - R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #30 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:45pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:26pm:

[quote author=bogarde73 link=1405464642/7#7 date=1405472240]

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a retrial.

... and I believe there SHOULD be - even if just to confirm the findings of the FIRST one

The case had erupted into a too big emotive media circus to have any chance of finding an untainted jury that could deliver anything BUT a guilty verdict "beyond reasonable doubt"

REALLY WE HEARD ALMOST NOTHING DOWN HERE IN CAN BRA...WEVE HAD MORE NEWS COVERAGE ON OSCARS TRIAL.

ALMOST NOTHING IN THE NEWSPAPERS

The prosecution have admitted their case was based purely on "circumstantial evidence"
Generally - in our justice system - "circumstantial evidence" is ONLY used as a back up to MATERIAL EVIDENCE

MMMMM SO THE SCRATCHES ON HIS FACE WERE CIRCUMSTANTIAL...OK... I STILL HAVENT SEEN A DOUBLE BLADED SHAVING SCRATCH BEFORE.

And the blood on her car seat ?

Remember this was the SAME evidence that convicted Lindy Chamberlain
It was only found YEARS LATER that police forensics had seriously screwed up - and it wasn't blood at ALL - but automotive over-spray

YOU DO KNOW THAT FORENSICS HAVE MOVED ON EVEN FURTHER SINCE LINDY WAS IN COURT...IN FACT THE BLOOD IN THE CAR WAS ALLISONS BLOOD..

At the end of the day the BIGGEST piece of MATERIAL EVIDENCE was this "love-rat's" affair

So I would say YES - a retrial IS WARRANTED - but by a JUDGE, not a JURY, to remove divide in the community

YOU CONVENIENTLY FORGET ABOUT THE HUGE DEBT HE WAS IN AND HOW HE TRIED TO BORROW THOUSANDS AND WAS KNOCKED BACK..

[b]HE ADMITS HIMSELF HE WAS DESPERATE...

Former prestige real estate agent Gerard Baden-Clay requested a $300,000 loan from Queensland state MP Bruce Flegg in the months before his wife disappeared, a court has heard.

Sue Health, a close friend of Dr Flegg, told the Supreme Court in Brisbane on Thursday she phoned Mr Baden-Clay in March 2012 at the request of the Moggill MP.

Ms Heath said Mr Baden-Clay sounded “distressed” as he asked for a sizeable loan.

Advertisement
“Gerard said he was having financial trouble and he wanted to know if Bruce could lend him some money,” she said.

“He was distressed, you just could just tell in his voice. He was normally very confident and he was genuinely quite distressed. I felt really quite sad for him.

Gerard Baden-Clay.
Gerard Baden-Clay.
“He said if he didn't get it [the money] … he would go broke or bankrupt.

“I just felt really sad, because they seemed so successful.”

Ms Heath said she would pass on Mr Baden-Clay’s request to Dr Flegg, although she warned him she did not think the politician “had that kind of money”.

“I remember thinking it was very serious and if we could help, we should,” Ms Heath said.

She said Mr Baden-Clay responded well, noting he had “impeccable manners”.

Earlier, the court heard from forensic medical officer Dr Leslie Griffiths, who examined Mr Baden-Clay at the Royal Brisbane and Women’s Hospital on April 22, 2012.

Dr Griffiths said he was asked to document the injuries on Mr Baden-Clay’s face, upper chest and right armpit.

He said the injuries on Mr Baden-Clay's face appeared to be "abrasions" rather than "cuts".

"What I have described to the court is an abrasion, not a cut," Dr Griffiths said, referring to a photograph of the injuries.

"They could be caused by a human scratch ... by fingernail scratches.

"They resemble scratch marks."

Mr Baden-Clay said he cut himself shaving on the morning he reported his wife missing, after police questioned the marks on his face.

Dr Griffiths said it was "highly improbable" that a "modern razor" would cause an abrasion of the type Mr Baden-Clay presented with.

Referencing his own experience shaving Dr Griffiths said: "I've never seen an injury like that in my own experience personally.”

Back to top

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 38870
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #31 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:47pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:42pm:

Aussie I'm sure you could make a case of reasonable doubt for Adolph Hitler that really he was just a misguided house painter, fortunately, the Jury have seen the truth for what it is.

Juries have no special truth divining powers. Their decisions are human and could be mistakenly made.

Back to top

IP Logged

red baron

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 10204
Blue Mountains
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #32 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:48pm

No, no, no, buzzanddidj, what you are trying to do is draw a line of association between the Chamberlain matter and the Baden-Clay matter.

There is no link whatsoever either by inference, association or fact.

Baden-Clay has been justly convicted - end of story.

You see no matter much you bang on, he has just been given a Life Sentence, so all of this is just admin.

Cods - your comments about Allison Baden-Clay were correct, she was a lovely person. Anyone who had been following the trial closely would have seen that very early in the piece.

I listened to the victim impact statements closely, it demonstrated how much love there was for her in her family.

Back to top

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 38870
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #33 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:51pm

Quote:

Dr Griffiths said it was "highly improbable" that a "modern razor" would cause an abrasion of the type Mr Baden-Clay presented with.

He did say something similar, but note that he did not say that the cuts could not happen as described by Baden-Clay.

That is the vital point. He could not exclude what Baden-Clay claimed as possible.

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 140007
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #34 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:53pm

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

YOU DO KNOW THAT FORENSICS HAVE MOVED ON EVEN FURTHER SINCE LINDY WAS IN COURT...IN FACT THE BLOOD IN THE CAR WAS ALLISONS BLOOD..

It is believed to be her blood, according to current testing methods.

In 30 years time, forensic science will be even more advanced.

Don't be fooled into thinking that we have already achieved the very best in terms of accuracy.

Having said that, I thought he was guilty from day one.

Back to top

IP Logged

red baron Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10204 Blue Mountains Gender:	Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay Reply #35 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:57pm Aussie, you are correct, Juries make mistakes but in the absence of a fairer system, I would say they got it stunningly right in this matter.
Back to top	IP Logged

Kytro

Gold Member

Offline

Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #36 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 3:56pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 12:36pm:

It's very sad.

I believe the justice system got it right.

He has a deep lack of integrity and honesty, was in serious financial strife. Has one suspicious injury mark and another unexplained one, was up at a strange time on that night.

She had debris from their yard on her person and her blood was in their car.

Cheating on his wife does not make him a murderer.
Murderers would be ok with cheating though.

it'ld be a tough decision to make, if those facts are beyond reasonable doubt.

My impression is he killed her, but I'm less certain that it was on purpose, and there is still some doubt.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sophia

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 8642

Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #37 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:01pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

No, no, no, buzzanddidj, what you are trying to do is draw a line of association between the Chamberlain matter and the Baden-Clay matter.

There is no link whatsoever either by inference, association or fact.

Baden-Clay has been justly convicted - end of story.

You see no matter much you bang on, he has just been given a Life Sentence, so all of this is just admin.

Cods - your comments about Allison Baden-Clay were correct, she was a lovely person. Anyone who had been following the trial closely would have seen that very early in the piece.

I listened to the victim impact statements closely, it demonstrated how much love there was for her in her family.

Was very sad to hear her dad saying that he failed her as a father to protect her, and will haunt him for the rest of his life. I wish he wouldn't blame himself for that, after all, who's to know? It appears there were no warning signs of the son-in-law being violent or threatening.
My guess is that when people do something during a heated argument, some say, they 'blacked out' and don't remember picking up a knife and stabbing their partner etc.
How can any father or mother, protect their adult child from anything like that?

Back to top

IP Logged

Sophia

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 8642

Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #38 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:07pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:53pm:

cods wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

YOU DO KNOW THAT FORENSICS HAVE MOVED ON EVEN FURTHER SINCE LINDY WAS IN COURT...IN FACT THE BLOOD IN THE CAR WAS ALLISONS BLOOD..

It is believed to be her blood, according to current testing methods.

In 30 years time, forensic science will be even more advanced.

Don't be fooled into thinking that we have already achieved the very best in terms of accuracy.

Having said that, I thought he was guilty from day one.

And that is exactly where we are at now since the Chamberlain case, decades later with forensic science better than we have ever had it, so far...and yes, probably will be even better in the future, that's a given.

Allison's car was only 6 weeks old (bought from new), and if say, one of the kids had a bloody knee or nose bleed, am sure Allison would have cleaned it up, as mothers do, or anyone that owns a new car would.
But they matched that blood to be hers.

One thing that I don't get is, why do they buy a brand new car when they had financial problems?

Back to top

IP Logged

John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75356 Gender:	Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay Reply #39 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:10pm Sophia wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:07pm: One thing that I don't get is, why do they buy a brand new car when they had financial problems? keeping up with the Jones'
Back to top	Our esteemed leader: I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus. IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 38870
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #40 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:14pm

Sophia wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:01pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

No, no, no, buzzanddidj, what you are trying to do is draw a line of association between the Chamberlain matter and the Baden-Clay matter.

There is no link whatsoever either by inference, association or fact.

Baden-Clay has been justly convicted - end of story.

You see no matter much you bang on, he has just been given a Life Sentence, so all of this is just admin.

Cods - your comments about Allison Baden-Clay were correct, she was a lovely person. Anyone who had been following the trial closely would have seen that very early in the piece.

I listened to the victim impact statements closely, it demonstrated how much love there was for her in her family.

Was very sad to hear her dad saying that he failed her as a father to protect her, and will haunt him for the rest of his life. I wish he wouldn't blame himself for that, after all, who's to know? It appears there were no warning signs of the son-in-law being violent or threatening.
My guess is that when people do something during a heated argument, some say, they 'blacked out' and don't remember picking up a knife and stabbing their partner etc.
How can any father or mother, protect their adult child from anything like that?

They can't and that very fact puts the correct spotlight on the bizarre, self absorbed almost narcissist comment from her Father.

Back to top

IP Logged

red baron

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 10204
Blue Mountains
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #41 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:15pm

Ever seen a woman's finger nail scrapes on a man's face. I have a number of times in my Police days. Funny thing is Aussie, they look remarkably like the scrapes on Baden-Clay's face, funny about that huh?

Thing is if it looks like fingernail scrapes, chances are......

Still trying to figure out a razor that would make marks like that, perhaps he shaved with a brickie's trowel.

Back to top

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 38870
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #42 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:24pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:15pm:

Ever seen a woman's finger nail scrapes on a man's face. I have a number of times in my Police days. Funny thing is Aussie, they look remarkably like the scrapes on Baden-Clay's face, funny about that huh?

Thing is if it looks like fingernail scrapes, chances are......

Still trying to figure out a razor that would make marks like that, perhaps he shaved with a brickie's trowel.

Who knows, but where is the forensic evidence of HIS skin tissue under her fingernails? Answer ~ there was NONE, and you would expect there to be. That there was none tells you what, Mr Baron?

Back to top

IP Logged

red baron Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10204 Blue Mountains Gender:	Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay Reply #43 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:27pm In his summing up, after the return of the Jury, The Judge pointed out the 'damning evidence' of the fingernail scrapes. I think that's plenty for me.
Back to top	IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 38870
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #44 - Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:30pm

red baron wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 4:27pm:

In his summing up, after the return of the Jury, The Judge pointed out the 'damning evidence' of the fingernail scrapes.

I think that's plenty for me.

I very much doubt he used the word 'damning,' but if he did, he was overstating the matter, and that may well be a ground of appeal. I'm sure he referred to the marks on his face, but he would not likely have expressed a personal opinion on weight to be given to it.

Edit: Oh, you are referring to what he said after the verdict. That is entirely different because at that time, he must converse in terms of the bloke having done the deed.

Back to top

IP Logged