Australian Politics Forum - R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay

Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38870 Gender:	Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay Reply #75 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:34am I've been trying to find where I read that skin tissue (not his) was found under one of her nails, and I haven't turned it up again yet. However, on that search, I also now read suggestions that her nails (except four) were missing. Confusing.
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Neferti Gold Member Offline Posts: 7965 Canberra Gender:	Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay Reply #76 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report. http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38870 Gender:	Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay Reply #77 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 10:15am Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am: Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report. http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf Where is the DNA Test Report. The nails were sent off for examination.
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Sophia

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Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #78 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 12:50pm

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

I read it all.
And the body was in thick mud, with a lot of insect larvae and beetles on her, with a decomposition of a lot of soft tissue loss.
Palm and fingerprints of the left hand are intact, and most of the skin of the right hand is absent. All fingernails of the right hand are detached and on the left hand nails, fingers 1 and 5 are detached, while 2-4 are loosely attached.

So getting back to my main thought re: any dna or skin tissue relating to her husbands face, with the mud and insects and decomposition, all that is lost, isn't it?

Drowning is not ruled out, as the appearance of lungs is not typical of drowning, the report says, however, post-mortem changes significantly limit interpretation.
Then further down, drowning has to be considered a possible cause of death over a natural cause of death.
And then, mentions strangulation/smothering.

She could have still been alive when her body was pushed over the embankment, and either the tide washed her further along under the bridge, or she clawed her way there, as the report mentions it could have been the rising water that put her in that akward spot, or she crawled her way there, or some other person put her there.
There were no fractures to show she jumped off the bridge.

So much for finding his skin tissues under her nails from scratching his face.

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Aussie

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Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #79 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 3:04pm

Sophia wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 12:50pm:

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

I read it all.
And the body was in thick mud, with a lot of insect larvae and beetles on her, with a decomposition of a lot of soft tissue loss.
Palm and fingerprints of the left hand are intact, and most of the skin of the right hand is absent. All fingernails of the right hand are detached and on the left hand nails, fingers 1 and 5 are detached, while 2-4 are loosely attached.

So getting back to my main thought re: any dna or skin tissue relating to her husbands face, with the mud and insects and decomposition, all that is lost, isn't it?

Drowning is not ruled out, as the appearance of lungs is not typical of drowning, the report says, however, post-mortem changes significantly limit interpretation.
Then further down, drowning has to be considered a possible cause of death over a natural cause of death.
And then, mentions strangulation/smothering.

She could have still been alive when her body was pushed over the embankment, and either the tide washed her further along under the bridge, or she clawed her way there, as the report mentions it could have been the rising water that put her in that akward spot, or she crawled her way there, or some other person put her there.
There were no fractures to show she jumped off the bridge.

So much for finding his skin tissues under her nails from scratching his face.

All the nails were sent for DNA testing. I am hoping that the Member who produced the unredacted (not all of it was allowed in to evidence) Post Mortem Report will also produce that DNA Report which must form the basis for what I read somewhere about skin tissue found under a nail, not being his.

This is the relevant part of the PM Report:

All the ..... nails from both hands including those attached to the fingers were submitted for DNA testing as required.

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red baron

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Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #80 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 3:17pm

Aussie quote:-

All the nails were sent for DNA testing. I am hoping that the Member who produced the unredacted (not all of it was allowed in to evidence) Post Mortem Report will also produce that DNA Report which must form the basis for what I read somewhere about skin tissue found under a nail, not being his.

Link please

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Aussie

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Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #81 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 3:19pm

red baron wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 3:17pm:

Aussie quote:-

All the nails were sent for DNA testing. I am hoping that the Member who produced the unredacted (not all of it was allowed in to evidence) Post Mortem Report will also produce that DNA Report which must form the basis for what I read somewhere about skin tissue found under a nail, not being his.

Link please

It is part of the Post Mortem Report linked by Neferti above.

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Alinta

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Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #82 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:09pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

Sophia wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 12:50pm:

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

I read it all.
And the body was in thick mud, with a lot of insect larvae and beetles on her, with a decomposition of a lot of soft tissue loss.
Palm and fingerprints of the left hand are intact, and most of the skin of the right hand is absent. All fingernails of the right hand are detached and on the left hand nails, fingers 1 and 5 are detached, while 2-4 are loosely attached.

So getting back to my main thought re: any dna or skin tissue relating to her husbands face, with the mud and insects and decomposition, all that is lost, isn't it?

Drowning is not ruled out, as the appearance of lungs is not typical of drowning, the report says, however, post-mortem changes significantly limit interpretation.
Then further down, drowning has to be considered a possible cause of death over a natural cause of death.
And then, mentions strangulation/smothering.

She could have still been alive when her body was pushed over the embankment, and either the tide washed her further along under the bridge, or she clawed her way there, as the report mentions it could have been the rising water that put her in that akward spot, or she crawled her way there, or some other person put her there.
There were no fractures to show she jumped off the bridge.

So much for finding his skin tissues under her nails from scratching his face.

All the nails were sent for DNA testing. I am hoping that the Member who produced the unredacted (not all of it was allowed in to evidence) Post Mortem Report will also produce that DNA Report which must form the basis for what I read somewhere about skin tissue found under a nail, not being his.

This is the relevant part of the PM Report:

All the ..... nails from both hands including those attached to the fingers were submitted for DNA testing as required.

This is the best I can find re the DNA fingernail analysis...........

"The complete DNA profile obtained from the sample matched the reference DNA profile of Allison Baden-Clay," forensic scientist Amanda Reeves said.
Ms Reeves said that when she examined swabs from the dead woman's fingernails she found Allison's DNA and very low levels of possible DNA from a second contributor.
"However these were below the recordable threshold of the laboratory," she said.
"I didn't believe that they were suitable for comparison."

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red baron

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Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #83 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:18pm

Interesting that Gerard Baden-Murderer's legal team have lodged an appeal today. Nothing to say that it will be granted, they will need to find some big ticket items to convince the Justice system that an appeal is warranted. I'm betting they will get an 'F' for fail in their application.

Also more evidence has come out of Baden-Clay's bizzare domestic behaviour.

A criminal law expert believes Gerard Baden-Clay (pic) is sure to appeal his conviction for murder.
AAP A criminal law expert believes Gerard Baden-Clay (pic) is sure to appeal his conviction for murder.

Convicted killer Gerard Baden-Clay has formally lodged an appeal against his murder conviction.

On Tuesday the 43-year-old was found guilty of murdering his wife Allison in 2012.

Baden-Clay, a former real estate agent, pleaded not guilty to the charges but was found guilty and given an automatic life sentence with a non-parole period of 15 years.

Baden-Clay's lawyers confirmed to 7News on Thursday afternoon they had lodged the appeal.

According to documents filed with the Queensland Court of Appeal Baden-Clay's legal team will be appealing the conviction on four grounds.

It's argued that the guilty verdict of murder was “unreasonable”, and that there was a miscarriage of justice over the relevance of Allison's blood being in a car.

Documents also stated that jurors needed to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that Baden-Clay placed his Allison's body at Kholo Creek “in order to use such a finding as post-offence conduct going to guilt”, News Limited reports.

The final argument relates to the marks on Baden-Clay's face.

The evidence Gerard Baden-Clay didn't want heard

Gerard Baden-Clay attempted to stop medical experts from testifying the marks on his face were consistent with fingernail scratches.

In a pre-trial hearing, the defence argued the jury could make their own minds up about the marks on the face of the convicted murderer, however the bid was rejected.

A pathologist was barred from saying a possible chest haemorrhage on victim and wife Allison Baden-Clay's body could have been from an assault.

Allison's family yesterday revealed her husband was controlling and abusive for years before he murdered her.

Those close to the murdered mother-of-three have come forward to detail years of emotional abuse she suffered at the hands of her husband, to whom she was married for 14 years.

Information previously suppressed because of court proceedings has been released, revealing Allison showed her mother bruising 12 months before she was killed.

"He used to have baby monitors on the house in reverse so he could hear everything that was happening within the house," Allison's cousin Jodie Dann told Sunday Night.

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Neferti

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Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #84 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:34pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 10:15am:

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

Where is the DNA Test Report. The nails were sent off for examination.

Aussie,

Much evidence was kept from the Jury under GBC's instructions. The JURY didn't hear everything ... including part of the Forensic Pathologist (Dr Nathan Milne) report that Allison may have died from a subdural haemorrhage plus the DNA report about the matter under the fingernails.

The MSN reported that it was "from another person" (not Allison) so one can ASSUME it was GBC's DNA but it was NOT stated as such.

Anything else you would like me to help you with, Aussie? Cup of tea? Beer" Back scratch?

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Aussie

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Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #85 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:52pm

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:34pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 10:15am:

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Here is a link to the Official Autopsy Report.

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

Where is the DNA Test Report. The nails were sent off for examination.

Aussie,

Much evidence was kept from the Jury under GBC's instructions. The JURY didn't hear everything ... including part of the Forensic Pathologist (Dr Nathan Milne) report that Allison may have died from a subdural haemorrhage plus the DNA report about the matter under the fingernails.

The MSN reported that it was "from another person" (not Allison) so one can ASSUME it was GBC's DNA but it was NOT stated as such.

Anything else you would like me to help you with, Aussie? Cup of tea? Beer" Back scratch?

If that DNA under her nail was his.....it would have been red hot admissible evidence, and the Jury would have taken less than an hour to convict, and I would have no doubt at all of his guilt.

So, who is the mystery person whose skin tissue got under her nail?

(I have reservations about this matter, because if it was as simple as I have been stating it, the Defence would have been all over it.)

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Aussie

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Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #86 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:58pm

red baron wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 4:18pm:

Interesting that Gerard Baden-Murderer's legal team have lodged an appeal today. Nothing to say that it will be granted, they will need to find some big ticket items to convince the Justice system that an appeal is warranted. I'm betting they will get an 'F' for fail in their application.

Also more evidence has come out of Baden-Clay's bizzare domestic behaviour.

A criminal law expert believes Gerard Baden-Clay (pic) is sure to appeal his conviction for murder.
AAP A criminal law expert believes Gerard Baden-Clay (pic) is sure to appeal his conviction for murder.

Convicted killer Gerard Baden-Clay has formally lodged an appeal against his murder conviction.

On Tuesday the 43-year-old was found guilty of murdering his wife Allison in 2012.

Baden-Clay, a former real estate agent, pleaded not guilty to the charges but was found guilty and given an automatic life sentence with a non-parole period of 15 years.

Baden-Clay's lawyers confirmed to 7News on Thursday afternoon they had lodged the appeal.

According to documents filed with the Queensland Court of Appeal Baden-Clay's legal team will be appealing the conviction on four grounds.

It's argued that the guilty verdict of murder was “unreasonable”, and that there was a miscarriage of justice over the relevance of Allison's blood being in a car.

Documents also stated that jurors needed to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that Baden-Clay placed his Allison's body at Kholo Creek “in order to use such a finding as post-offence conduct going to guilt”, News Limited reports.

The final argument relates to the marks on Baden-Clay's face.

The evidence Gerard Baden-Clay didn't want heard

Gerard Baden-Clay attempted to stop medical experts from testifying the marks on his face were consistent with fingernail scratches.

In a pre-trial hearing, the defence argued the jury could make their own minds up about the marks on the face of the convicted murderer, however the bid was rejected.

A pathologist was barred from saying a possible chest haemorrhage on victim and wife Allison Baden-Clay's body could have been from an assault.

Allison's family yesterday revealed her husband was controlling and abusive for years before he murdered her.

Those close to the murdered mother-of-three have come forward to detail years of emotional abuse she suffered at the hands of her husband, to whom she was married for 14 years.

Information previously suppressed because of court proceedings has been released, revealing Allison showed her mother bruising 12 months before she was killed.

"He used to have baby monitors on the house in reverse so he could hear everything that was happening within the house," Allison's cousin Jodie Dann told Sunday Night.

Although I can see merit in the blood and mud issues, this would have been traversed by Defence at the Trial. I doubt an Appeal will succeed as the 'Guilty' verdict was open on the evidence. I have seen Appeal Court Judges make comments like "While I may have come to a different conclusion, I am not persuaded that the Jury, having been properly instructed and in due execution of their duty could not have decided as they did."

That also does not mean I have had what I reckon are my reasonable doubts dispelled.

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Neferti Gold Member Offline Posts: 7965 Canberra Gender:	Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay Reply #87 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:06pm REGARDLESS of what you think AFTER THE EVENT, Aussie. GBC is incarcerated for the next 15 years, at least. That is where he belongs. However, Allison's 3 little girls and her parents and siblings have to live with this. Have some compassion for the victims.
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Neferti Gold Member Offline Posts: 7965 Canberra Gender:	Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay Reply #88 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:18pm GBC has appealed. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-17/gerard-baden-clay-launches-appeal-against-...
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Aussie

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Re: R.I.P. Allison Baden-Clay
Reply #89 - Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:21pm

Neferti wrote on Jul 17^th, 2014 at 5:06pm:

REGARDLESS of what you think AFTER THE EVENT, Aussie. GBC is incarcerated for the next 15 years, at least. That is where he belongs.

If he did the deed, you are correct.

Quote:

However, Allison's 3 little girls and her parents and siblings have to live with this. Have some compassion for the victims.

Yes they do. But, he may at this stage also be a victim, so let's see some compassion in that direction. I'm not going to be partisan about it so I'll hand none out anywhere except to the kids who have lost a Mother and stand to lose a Father.

Ya see.....this is where the schmedia need a kick in the gonads again. They go to town after the conviction, and encourage the 'victors' to triumph the outcome because at Stage One, it went their way, ignoring the obvious existence of Stage Two and even Stage Three. I'm not saying the Lindy Chamberlain case is directly on point, but it is when it boils down to the stupid public cheer leading and demonising, so publicly embraced post conviction. At all times, she was innocent............a victim.

'Dignified silence,' as adopted by the currently defeated and vanquished, and by his Family would have been far better.

Just what did her Family think they were achieving with their grotesque celebrations? Vindication? Nah. What?

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