Australian Politics Forum - prediction of muslims attitude

Setanta

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Re: prediction of muslims attitude
Reply #45 - Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:19pm

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:10pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 7:38pm:

I'm pretty sure there would have been Arabs in Arabia before ass-man of old testament fame left home. I am not asking you to trace their ancestry. I am asking about Muhammed's claims regarding the Arabs. I think most of Muhammed's attempts to rewrite history to give Islam orthodox credibility are transparent bullshit. However in this case it is the claim itself that is interesting.

Not sure why this is such a touchy subject, particularly for you setanta.

It's not touchy to me at all. Seeing crap posted is the problem. The Arabs were considered descended from Ishmael for at least 1000 years before Mohammed. Why does he have to "claim" anything, what has this got to do with Muslims being tainted because of Ishmael? Not all Muslims are Arab, not all Arabs are Muslim.

How about we start with what he did claim, before trying to justify it?

How about we start with the claim in the OP? "Muslims" are tainted because of an "ass-man", Ishmael, and they inherit his affliction, an inherited, genetic failing. That was the implied claim. My answer is that even if what is claimed about Arabs is true, it's irrelevant, not all Muslims are Arab. Muslims do not trace their identity to Ishmael. Is that really so hard?

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40764 Gender:	Re: prediction of muslims attitude Reply #46 - Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:21pm setanta - they claim ishmaels 'inheritance' as being the first born . Which is false, as the OT shows
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Setanta

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Re: prediction of muslims attitude
Reply #47 - Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:27pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:21pm:

setanta - they claim ishmaels 'inheritance' as being the first born .

Which is false, as the OT shows

LOL.. As if I give a stuff about crap like that. Truth be told Ishmael was the first born, Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham, the child was to be, according to custom, Abraham and Sarah's first born. Hagar was Sarah's property.

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freediver

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Re: prediction of muslims attitude
Reply #48 - Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:34pm

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:10pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 7:38pm:

I'm pretty sure there would have been Arabs in Arabia before ass-man of old testament fame left home. I am not asking you to trace their ancestry. I am asking about Muhammed's claims regarding the Arabs. I think most of Muhammed's attempts to rewrite history to give Islam orthodox credibility are transparent bullshit. However in this case it is the claim itself that is interesting.

Not sure why this is such a touchy subject, particularly for you setanta.

It's not touchy to me at all. Seeing crap posted is the problem. The Arabs were considered descended from Ishmael for at least 1000 years before Mohammed. Why does he have to "claim" anything, what has this got to do with Muslims being tainted because of Ishmael? Not all Muslims are Arab, not all Arabs are Muslim.

How about we start with what he did claim, before trying to justify it?

How about we start with the claim in the OP? "Muslims" are tainted because of an "ass-man", Ishmael, and they inherit his affliction, an inherited, genetic failing. That was the implied claim. My answer is that even if what is claimed about Arabs is true, it's irrelevant, not all Muslims are Arab. Muslims do not trace their identity to Ishmael. Is that really so hard?

I keep telling you, if this is moving too fast for you, just let us know. We get that Islam is not a race. Most critics of Islam have to defend themselves from accusations of racism on a regular basis. You don't need to keep explaining this.

Can we move on now?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Setanta

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Re: prediction of muslims attitude
Reply #49 - Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:40pm

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:34pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:10pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 7:38pm:

I'm pretty sure there would have been Arabs in Arabia before ass-man of old testament fame left home. I am not asking you to trace their ancestry. I am asking about Muhammed's claims regarding the Arabs. I think most of Muhammed's attempts to rewrite history to give Islam orthodox credibility are transparent bullshit. However in this case it is the claim itself that is interesting.

Not sure why this is such a touchy subject, particularly for you setanta.

It's not touchy to me at all. Seeing crap posted is the problem. The Arabs were considered descended from Ishmael for at least 1000 years before Mohammed. Why does he have to "claim" anything, what has this got to do with Muslims being tainted because of Ishmael? Not all Muslims are Arab, not all Arabs are Muslim.

How about we start with what he did claim, before trying to justify it?

How about we start with the claim in the OP? "Muslims" are tainted because of an "ass-man", Ishmael, and they inherit his affliction, an inherited, genetic failing. That was the implied claim. My answer is that even if what is claimed about Arabs is true, it's irrelevant, not all Muslims are Arab. Muslims do not trace their identity to Ishmael. Is that really so hard?

I keep telling you, if this is moving too fast for you, just let us know. We get that Islam is not a race. Most critics of Islam have to defend themselves from accusations of racism on a regular basis. You don't need to keep explaining this.

Can we move on now?

Well... What are they defending themselves from now? What are you hitting 'em with that they need to defend themselves?
If it's not on topic, then yes, you should explain and spell it out. You are disagreeing with the OP but....

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Karnal

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Re: prediction of muslims attitude
Reply #50 - Jul 26^th, 2014 at 12:18am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 9:56pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 8:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 1:29pm:

Gandalf gets jealous if I pay too much attention to the apologists rather than to him.

Did Muhammed claim that he and his fellow Arabs were descended from this proverbial ass-man?

Yes they do.

Ask them or google it.

Do you know?

yes. muslims I have spoken to boast of the link to Ishmael.

Abu again, eh?

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96347	Re: prediction of muslims attitude Reply #51 - Jul 26^th, 2014 at 12:19am Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:03pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 24^th, 2014 at 11:40pm: Setanta, welcome to debating FD. Spare a thought for me - I have to put up with this sort of sh!t almost every day. you can leave He could always be deported to New Zealand.
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Karnal

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Re: prediction of muslims attitude
Reply #52 - Jul 26^th, 2014 at 12:27am

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:40pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:34pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:10pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 7:38pm:

I'm pretty sure there would have been Arabs in Arabia before ass-man of old testament fame left home. I am not asking you to trace their ancestry. I am asking about Muhammed's claims regarding the Arabs. I think most of Muhammed's attempts to rewrite history to give Islam orthodox credibility are transparent bullshit. However in this case it is the claim itself that is interesting.

Not sure why this is such a touchy subject, particularly for you setanta.

It's not touchy to me at all. Seeing crap posted is the problem. The Arabs were considered descended from Ishmael for at least 1000 years before Mohammed. Why does he have to "claim" anything, what has this got to do with Muslims being tainted because of Ishmael? Not all Muslims are Arab, not all Arabs are Muslim.

How about we start with what he did claim, before trying to justify it?

How about we start with the claim in the OP? "Muslims" are tainted because of an "ass-man", Ishmael, and they inherit his affliction, an inherited, genetic failing. That was the implied claim. My answer is that even if what is claimed about Arabs is true, it's irrelevant, not all Muslims are Arab. Muslims do not trace their identity to Ishmael. Is that really so hard?

I keep telling you, if this is moving too fast for you, just let us know. We get that Islam is not a race. Most critics of Islam have to defend themselves from accusations of racism on a regular basis. You don't need to keep explaining this.

Can we move on now?

Well... What are they defending themselves from now? What are you hitting 'em with that they need to defend themselves?
If it's not on topic, then yes, you should explain and spell it out. You are disagreeing with the OP but....

No no, FD was just asking a question. Can we move on now?

FD, of course, is free to move to New Zealand, but he might bump into G, who should be forcibly deported for being a Muslim.

As opposed to Sprint, who is free to move to Australia to call for the deportation of G.

FD and Sprint, you see, are both arch-defenders of Freeedom.

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Yadda

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Re: prediction of muslims attitude
Reply #53 - Jul 26^th, 2014 at 12:42am

Karnal wrote on Jul 26^th, 2014 at 12:27am:

FD and Sprint, you see, are both arch-defenders of Freeedom.

Karnal,

Perhaps.

But people like yourself are not.

People like yourself will spend the 'coin' that has been gifted to you - but you will never choose to earn that 'coin' for yourself.

Because you have the heart of the slave.i

There can be no freedom, there can be no enjoyment of a peaceful life,

for those who are forever threatened with subjugation [slavery], by men of violence.

Q.
Who are the men of violence [today], who forever threaten us with slavery ?

A.
Moslems.

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

Quote:

"......he who attempts to get another man into his absolute power does thereby put himself into a state of war with him;"

John Locke 1632-170

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1242692863/0#0

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96347	Re: prediction of muslims attitude Reply #54 - Jul 26^th, 2014 at 1:14am The heart of a slave? Thanks, Y. I needed that. I haven’t laughed that hard in ages.
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Yadda

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Re: prediction of muslims attitude
Reply #55 - Jul 26^th, 2014 at 9:15am

It is to laugh.

Psalms 2:2
The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.iRomans 6:16

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Isaiah 41:10
.....I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Isaiah 55:6
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Hebrews 12:9
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.i

Where justice reigns, 'tis freedom to obey.

James Montgomery

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver

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Re: prediction of muslims attitude
Reply #56 - Jul 26^th, 2014 at 9:48am

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:40pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:34pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:10pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 7:38pm:

I'm pretty sure there would have been Arabs in Arabia before ass-man of old testament fame left home. I am not asking you to trace their ancestry. I am asking about Muhammed's claims regarding the Arabs. I think most of Muhammed's attempts to rewrite history to give Islam orthodox credibility are transparent bullshit. However in this case it is the claim itself that is interesting.

Not sure why this is such a touchy subject, particularly for you setanta.

It's not touchy to me at all. Seeing crap posted is the problem. The Arabs were considered descended from Ishmael for at least 1000 years before Mohammed. Why does he have to "claim" anything, what has this got to do with Muslims being tainted because of Ishmael? Not all Muslims are Arab, not all Arabs are Muslim.

How about we start with what he did claim, before trying to justify it?

How about we start with the claim in the OP? "Muslims" are tainted because of an "ass-man", Ishmael, and they inherit his affliction, an inherited, genetic failing. That was the implied claim. My answer is that even if what is claimed about Arabs is true, it's irrelevant, not all Muslims are Arab. Muslims do not trace their identity to Ishmael. Is that really so hard?

I keep telling you, if this is moving too fast for you, just let us know. We get that Islam is not a race. Most critics of Islam have to defend themselves from accusations of racism on a regular basis. You don't need to keep explaining this.

Can we move on now?

Well... What are they defending themselves from now? What are you hitting 'em with that they need to defend themselves?
If it's not on topic, then yes, you should explain and spell it out. You are disagreeing with the OP but....

You are confused Setanta. I am just trying to figure out what Muhammed actually said about it. Do I need to start a new thread about that, seeing as you are policing the content of this one? Why do you seem so desperate to avoid any clarification?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal

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Re: prediction of muslims attitude
Reply #57 - Jul 26^th, 2014 at 10:59am

freediver wrote on Jul 26^th, 2014 at 9:48am:

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:40pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:34pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 10:10pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 7:38pm:

I'm pretty sure there would have been Arabs in Arabia before ass-man of old testament fame left home. I am not asking you to trace their ancestry. I am asking about Muhammed's claims regarding the Arabs. I think most of Muhammed's attempts to rewrite history to give Islam orthodox credibility are transparent bullshit. However in this case it is the claim itself that is interesting.

Not sure why this is such a touchy subject, particularly for you setanta.

It's not touchy to me at all. Seeing crap posted is the problem. The Arabs were considered descended from Ishmael for at least 1000 years before Mohammed. Why does he have to "claim" anything, what has this got to do with Muslims being tainted because of Ishmael? Not all Muslims are Arab, not all Arabs are Muslim.

How about we start with what he did claim, before trying to justify it?

How about we start with the claim in the OP? "Muslims" are tainted because of an "ass-man", Ishmael, and they inherit his affliction, an inherited, genetic failing. That was the implied claim. My answer is that even if what is claimed about Arabs is true, it's irrelevant, not all Muslims are Arab. Muslims do not trace their identity to Ishmael. Is that really so hard?

I keep telling you, if this is moving too fast for you, just let us know. We get that Islam is not a race. Most critics of Islam have to defend themselves from accusations of racism on a regular basis. You don't need to keep explaining this.

Can we move on now?

Well... What are they defending themselves from now? What are you hitting 'em with that they need to defend themselves?
If it's not on topic, then yes, you should explain and spell it out. You are disagreeing with the OP but....

You are confused Setanta. I am just trying to figure out what Muhammed actually said about it. Do I need to start a new thread about that, seeing as you are policing the content of this one? Why do you seem so desperate to avoid any clarification?

Maybe Setanta is against Freeedom.

I can’t think of a better place to figure out what Muhammed actually said than Ozpolitic.

You keep searching for the truth, FD. It will come.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: prediction of muslims attitude Reply #58 - Jul 26^th, 2014 at 1:51pm freediver wrote on Jul 26^th, 2014 at 9:48am: You are confused Setanta. I am just trying to figure out what Muhammed actually said about it. How do you expect Setanta to know what Muhammad said about it? I don't even know. Do you? Presumably there is some point you are trying to make FD.
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Karnal

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Re: prediction of muslims attitude
Reply #59 - Jul 26^th, 2014 at 2:15pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 26^th, 2014 at 1:51pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 26^th, 2014 at 9:48am:

You are confused Setanta. I am just trying to figure out what Muhammed actually said about it.

How do you expect Setanta to know what Muhammad said about it?

I don't even know. Do you?

Presumably there is some point you are trying to make FD.

No no, FD’s just asking questions. Sometimes a question is just a question, you know.

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