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Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved' (Read 10141 times)
Yadda
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Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Jul 26th, 2014 at 11:24am
 

Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved', 'natural born killers' ?






Quote:
Kasim Ahmed stabbed Thavisha Peiris 14 times and left him to bleed to death
17-year-old already had string of convictions for violence and thefts at time
Mr Peiris, 25, was killed while he was on final pizza delivery shift in Sheffield
Yesterday, judge said Ahmed's criminal record was 'truly terrible' for his age
Victim's family said serial robber was 'natural born killer with killer's instinct'
Ahmed sentenced to life in prison at Sheffield court with minimum 23 years
His cousin Shamraze Khan, 26, also jailed for life with minimum 24-year term

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2704921/Murdered-iPhone-natural-born-kil...


Does ISLAM produce within the moslem heart inculcate within the moslem heart, a 'right' belief that moslems are always the victims of persecution [by those who are not moslems].

And therefore inculcate within the moslem heart, a natural and 'legitimate' entitlement to feel aggrieved, and a 'natural right' to strike out in violence against those who are always portrayed, to the moslem psyche, by ISLAM, as the 'oppressors' of the moslem ?




ISLAM - in its primary doctrines - does inculcate a 'legitimate' grievance within the moslem heart, which does therefore incite within the moslem a 'righteous' and 'legitimate' hatred towards 'disbelievers', imo.


"O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse....."
Koran 3.118


".......And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"
Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."
Koran 4.74-76


"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1iISLAM teaches the moslem - from his childhood - that 'unbelief' is a serious [and a mortal] crime.
And from childhood, the moslem has identified and has always recognised, who the mortal enemy of the moslem is.

i.e.
All of 'disbelieving' mankind, those who reject ISLAM, are the declared - and are the 'worthy' - enemy of the moslem.
Because Allah declares to the moslem, that 'disbelievers' are evil, and 'disbelievers' are always working to undermine and thwart the deserved advancement of the moslem.
And so [from the perception of the aggrieved moslem], all moslem violence against 'disbelievers' is therefore 'righteous', and that violence is always seen as being attributed by Allah as being 'good works' by the moslem.




As per the directives of Allah;

"...Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123






How can a - religiously activated - moslem do this [image below], except that the moslem has been taught - by ISLAM - that this behaviour is doing 'good works' ?

IMAGE....
...
The one holding the AK47 is - Abdullah - from Sydney, on his holy-days.

Moslems, doing 'good works'.

  Koran 9.123

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Karnal
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #1 - Jul 26th, 2014 at 7:40pm
 
Compared to Karmic Khristians, you mean?
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wally1
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #2 - Jul 26th, 2014 at 9:12pm
 
A better question is, do christians routinely lie? Or are they naturally born liars?

I mean, they claim that hamas bombed a UN facility, but when it was turned out to be israel, they got no answer for themselves but start ranting about the evil of islam.

And then they produce a picture showing hamas firing 50 rockets after the ceasefire, when  in reality hamas only fired 3 rockets during the ceasfire.


Israel: 3 Mortars Fired From Gaza During Cease-Fire


http://time.com/3001132/gaza-israel-mortars-cease-fire/
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ian
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #3 - Jul 26th, 2014 at 10:43pm
 
only 3 rockets during the ceasefire. Thats ok then.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #4 - Jul 26th, 2014 at 10:49pm
 
mortars actually - big difference, and hamas doesn't have control over most of those.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #5 - Jul 26th, 2014 at 11:07pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 26th, 2014 at 10:49pm:
mortars actually - big difference, and hamas doesn't have control over most of those.


That is moslems and the moslem community, all over - denial of responsibility;

"We 'nice' moslems are not responsible for the violence which ISLAM inspires in other moslems."



Quote:

Rejecting Terror
Thursday, 11 April 2013

Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent.

There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith.

The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace.

It [ISLAM] rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.




http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewst...
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656i


"[ISLAM] rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony."


Grin

Honest!


IMAGE...
...

"If you call us violent, ......we will kill you!!"




THOSE PLACARDS, AT A MOSLEM STREET PROTEST IN LONDON READ.....

"Slay those who insult Islam"
"Behead those who insult Islam"
"Massacre those who insult Islam"
"Butcher those who mock Islam"

"Europe you will pay, demolition is on its way"
"Europe you will pay, extermination is on its way"
"Exterminate those who slander Islam"
"Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer"
"Islam will dominate the world"
"Freedom go to hell"
"Europe take some lessons from 9/11"
"Be prepared for the real Holocaust"
"BBC = British Blasphemic Crusaders"




THE RELIGION OF PEACE

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #6 - Jul 26th, 2014 at 11:23pm
 
ISLAM - as a philosophy - is incompatible with the values which are broadly aspired to by the peoples of all Western societies.

Freedom, liberty, personal responsibility for behaviour.



The values which ISLAM espouses - e.g. the prohibition of independent critical thinking - are offensive to the psyche of the peoples of all Western societies.



"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260







INDEPENDENT/CRITICAL THOUGHT IS ESSENTIALLY PROHIBITED, BY ISLAM

FROM THE KORAN....

"O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.....
Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith.
"
Koran 5.101, 102



FROM THE KORAN....

" "And believe no one unless he follows your religion." Say: "True guidance is the Guidance of Allah:....."   "
Koran 3.73




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #7 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 8:39am
 
I think Yadda has brought up an interesting issue here. There is a strong contrast between Islam and Christianity on this particular issue. Where Christianity preaches forgiveness, Islam preaches revenge and escalation of conflict. I think it is no accident that so many conflicts with Muslims get dragged on over the decades, and it is usually Muslims doing the dragging, from a position of military inferiority. I think even Gandalf has acknowledged the tendency for Muslims to falsely or unreasonably claim aggrieved status.
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #8 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 3:22pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 27th, 2014 at 8:39am:
even Gandalf has acknowledged the tendency for Muslims to falsely or unreasonably claim aggrieved status.


Actually FD I was just echoing your statement you made in 2007 - that muslim grievances and associated violence isn't a product of islam, but geo-political events and history:

freediver wrote on Apr 30th, 2007 at 12:48pm:

While this is a genuine problem at the moment, not every modern terrorist is a muslim and historically they are no different from any other group. The problem with linking it to Islam is that it suggests that Islam must be either destroyed or contained in order to protect ourselves. You know where that leads...

It would be more accurate and more useful to say that most current terrorist attacks or by people from the middle east or by people responding to the current situation in the middle east. It is not Islam that breeds terrorism, but political upheaval and the middle east is where most of the world's political problems currently are. As with most of these problems it can be traced back to past historical events, most of them during or immediately after WWII. 

Pointing the finger at Islam is an association fallacy. It assumes that Islam is the cause of the violence merely because it is associated with the violence. This is just like saying that any other religion is inherently violent because at some time in history violent acts were committed in it's territory or in it's name on a large and organised scale.

Pointing the finger at Islam will inevitably perpetuate the violence. Ending the violence is a far more complicated process that will never be achieved while we grasp for overly simplistic explanations and solutions to our problems. 
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #9 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 3:37pm
 
Touche', gandalf!

...referring to your quote of FD's old post.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #10 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 4:05pm
 
No Gandalf. I think you even used the word victimhood.
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #11 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 4:40pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 27th, 2014 at 4:05pm:
No Gandalf. I think you even used the word victimhood.


Perhaps. But I would never lose sight of the geopolitical context.

Spineless innit - just like FD 2007
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #12 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 6:13pm
 
What is the "geopolitical context" of hip-hop, or "most of the Muslim world today"?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 7th, 2014 at 5:29pm:
There is a perceived victimhood amongst muslims, especially in former colonies (which is most of the muslim world today), which gives rise to violence and irrational behaviour that is, at its core, entirely secular in nature, but have been infused with islamic ideology.


polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 17th, 2014 at 10:13pm:
Due in large part to muslim immigrants from Pakistan and India.

As for the converts, the article is about islam in the context of the hip-hop culture - which is based around a cult of victimhood and perceived persecution by authority. Not a "I want me some bitches to rape just like my Mo-man" culture.


Seems there is a geopolitical context for every Muslim in the world to have a victimhood complex.

Also, how to you account for the fact that even When Muhammed was kicking ass, he was careful to always claim victimhood, and blame his victims for their own demise?
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #13 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 7:43pm
 
Gee FD, do you suppose just maybe this perceived victimhood might be an abstract concept held by muslims who share a sense of brotherhood with actual muslim victims?

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make though - yes there is a victimhood mentality that is shared by people who are not directly victims. But it doesn't in any way diminish the fact that the root cause of it all, even if it takes religious dimensions, is secular in nature and not directly stemming from islamic ideology. Entirely consistent with what you said - that first quote is basically a carbon copy of what was said in that 2007 quote of yours.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Does ISLAM - as a philosophy - produce 'aggrieved'
Reply #14 - Jul 27th, 2014 at 7:54pm
 
Quote:
Gee FD, do you suppose just maybe this perceived victimhood might be an abstract concept held by muslims who share a sense of brotherhood with actual muslim victims?


You'll have to ask Karnal about that one. I don't do psychoanalysis. I agree with you about the global Muslim victimhood complex in a variety of geopolitical contexts (angry Arabs, white rappers etc). I just think it has been around longer than you are willing to acknowledge. When your religion is one of entitlement, getting anything less than that makes you a victim, and Muslims have been getting less and less for a thousand years.

Quote:
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make though - yes there is a victimhood mentality that is shared by people who are not directly victims. But it doesn't in any way diminish the fact that the root cause of it all, even if it takes religious dimensions, is secular in nature and not directly stemming from islamic ideology.


Sure. Muslims have this whole victimhood thing going on that tends to prolong their victimhood in a self fulfilling prophecy. But it is secular society's fault. If we simply gave them the Islamic State they wanted, everything would work out fine. In fact, not yielding to this demand makes them victims of freedom and democracy.

I blame society, though I am sure you will disagree.
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