As i mentioned about the graph gandalf, hamas stopped nearly all there rocket attacks post nov 2012 ceasefire.

Did israel say thank you hamas, did they lift the seige and sanctions, of course they didnt, they kept bombing them and killing them.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 27^th, 2014 at 11:07pm:


Your article is full of absurd leaps of logic. If "independent" is the only thing it has going for it, then it has nothing going for it. It is an exercise in not looking for evidence, not even thinking about what the evidence might look like or what to look for, then leaping to conclusions based on your ignorance.

wally1 wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 9:59am:


Looks to me like the two wars were the most effective at reducing rocket attacks.

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 6:53pm:


Of course actually talking to the people in question and getting an understanding of their motives for not leaving, and noting the discrepancies with unsourced Israeli claims equals "absurd leaps of logic" in FD's book. 

I think we can safely conclude from this that there is literally nothing at all that would cause you to question Israeli propaganda. At least just be honest FD and admit that this has nothing to do with any logically leaping articles, or my ignorance - and everything to do with your stubborn refusal to concede anything that deviates from your cartoon caricaturing of Palestinians and muslims.

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I am questioning your propaganda. Hamas militants are hiding behind their mothers skirts while attacking Israel, then blaming Israel for the consequences and milking the misery of the Palestinians for their own political gain. I don't particularly care whether they strap their mother to the bonnet of the rocket truck or park the truck in their mother's garage. Either way the outcome is the same, and Hamas are scum. I don't see why you are so keen to make the distinction either, other than to score some meaningless points.

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The post war periods were much longer, with only slightly more attacks.

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Not sure about the details of the earlier ones, but in the latest round the rocket attacks started long before the war, and I expect you have gotten the timing backwards for the rest of them too.

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 9:13pm:


Incorrect on all counts. Over 750 rockets and mortars were fired during Cast Lead in 2008-09, which then represented the biggest ever spike since the rockets began in 2001. During the November 2012 Israeli air offensive, in just 7 days Hamas managed to fire off over 1400 rockets - up from 116 rockets fired for the whole of October. And in this war, over 2400 rockets have been fired since the Israeli offensive began on  July 8 - up from 53 during all of June.

So yeah, you couldn't be more wrong about that FD. And not only is Hamas getting better and better at shooting off more and more rockets during each war, the rockets are getting bigger and more sophisticated. It kinda reminds me of that movie The Fifth element - where they tried to destroy that thing that was threatening them - but the more nukes they fired at it, the stronger it became.

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In other words you built an elaborate strawman and anyone who points this out is a troll. You don't actually care if Hamas is deliberately hiding behind palestinian civilians and taking political advantage of the misery they bring upon them. We are only allowed to discuss the one particular version of "hiding behind" you managed to dig up from somewhere.

The IDF does not deliberately massacre civilians. They do their best fighting an enemy that deliberately hides behind their mothers skirts and draws military conflict into the most heavily populated areas.

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Not just common knowledge, but common sense. A point I have repeatedly made to you, that you stubbornly refuse to address, is that Hamas is totally outgunned and could not possibly take on Israel without hiding among civilians and relying on Israel not being prepared to stoop as low as them. You post some obviously staged photos of Hamas fighting among trees in an open area (an area that according to Annie does not even exist). Taking this even remotely seriously requires a dedication to self delusion regarding the might of the Muslim armies that is worthy of Abu.

To top this off you post a photo of the Israelis arresting some idiot kid and insist they are the ones really using human shields. The Israeli army does not need human shields. They have the balls to take on Hamas militants openly, wherever Hamas chooses to take the fight. Hamas is incompetent, scared and relying on Israel taking the moral high ground. Their political strategy is to keep the Palestinians angry by provoking the Israeli army while hiding behind civilians, in order to bring constant misery to the Palestinian people and paint themselves as heros seeking vengeance on their behalf. They are scum, and you are desperately trying to quibble over what flavour of scum they are and labeling anyone who doesn't care about the flavour a troll.

You also point out, as if it means something, that Hamas do not force civilians to stay. The reality is they give them no choice. The Israeli return fire can come within seconds. If a neighbour fires a rocket at Irael, the last thing you want to do is venture out onto the street. If you are quick you might make it out the front door in time to see your neighbour's house explode and cop a brick in the head.

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That's great. So what does it mean? Does it mean that Hamas is not hiding behind civilians? Remember, this thread is about what flavour of scum Hamas are, and trying to change the subject to Israel is trolling.

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And you are reminding me more and more of Abu every day. Israel could wipe out the entire gaza strip if they wanted to, and if Hamas leaves them no option, they will. The more powerful Hamas becomes, the more misery they inflict on the Palestinian people, because they will never be strong enough to take on the Israeli army away from civilians in open warfare. You delude yourself about Hamas's military might the same way Abu did. The only thing they are capable of achieving is mass Palestinian casualties. You resort to absurd hollywood analogies because the reality is too dismal for you to accept.

FD, do you believe Israel is entitled as Y asserts to use Palestinian children as human shields because they are Moslems?

I’m curious.