Australian Politics Forum - The ethnic cleansing of Palestine

Karnal

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Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine
Reply #45 - Aug 5^th, 2014 at 8:50pm

That’s strange. That’s exactly where Sparky used to live. I imagine he got all hoity-toity and moved out to "better himself".

What a hideous snob he is. What a traitor.

You stay right where you are, Shakey. If you see Sparky, tell him to.GET OUT of our country.

He can move to Jordan or Lebanon with all those traitorous Palestinians, eh?

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freediver

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Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine
Reply #46 - Aug 7^th, 2014 at 8:37pm

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Everyone be in awe at the "control" the Palestinians have on the west bank - that is carved up by settlement regional borders (rendering some 50% of the land as Israeli sovereign territory), riddled with IDF checkpoints and Israeli-only bypass roads, no airspace and no control of any borders. Or in Gaza which is completely surrounded by a wall controlled by external powers, who impose a crippling blockade and restrict the entry of all goods.

That is part of taking responsibility for your own actions. If Israel could allow goods into Gaza without the inevitable outcome that more and bigger rockets get fired over that wall you complain about, they would. This is the outcome Hamas wants. They are in control in Gaza, and the Palestinians put them there.

Quote:

Please FD, give us all a good laugh and keep a straight face while you claim the Palestinian territories are not occupied.

They were, briefly. Israel pulled out, unilaterally. That's what an occupation looks like Gandalf. It is not the same thing as a blockade.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine
Reply #47 - Aug 7^th, 2014 at 9:59pm

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2014 at 8:37pm:

They were, briefly. Israel pulled out, unilaterally. That's what an occupation looks like Gandalf. It is not the same thing as a blockade.

1. Israel occupies the west bank.

2. Israel maintains effective control of the Gaza strip - its borders, its agricultural land (buffer zones inside the strip are in fact still occupied), its coast and its airspace. Consequently, the unilateral withdrawal of Israeli troops and settlements means diddly squat to Gaza's occupied status under international law.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine
Reply #48 - Aug 7^th, 2014 at 10:15pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2014 at 8:24pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2014 at 7:43pm:

No Gandalf. Not on the basis of fear of ethnicity, but on the basis of fear of getting shot. Why is that so hard for you to understand

Non-jews were forcibly removed from major urban centres. It is completely irrelevant the reason they were evicted, the fact is they were forced out on the basis of ethnicity (ie only one ethnicity was removed), and that is ethnic cleansing. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Do you have some aversion to saying (as Benny Morris and others have) that ethnic cleansing can be a morally justifiable action in the interests of self preservation?

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2014 at 7:43pm:

They are under their own control Gandalf. They elected Hamas remember? They are responsible for the consequences of their own actions. This is just more bullshit Muslim victimhood. It is Hamas who denies them human rights. It is Hamas who slaughters them if they protest against Hamas.

Ah yes, I was wondering how long before this gem would come out.

Everyone be in awe at the "control" the Palestinians have on the west bank - that is carved up by settlement regional borders (rendering some 50% of the land as Israeli sovereign territory), riddled with IDF checkpoints and Israeli-only bypass roads, no airspace and no control of any borders. Or in Gaza which is completely surrounded by a wall controlled by external powers, who impose a crippling blockade and restrict the entry of all goods.

Please FD, give us all a good laugh and keep a straight face while you claim the Palestinian territories are not occupied.

Terrorism comes at a price Gandalf.
And the Palestinians have to pay that price.
The cage the Israeli's keep the Palestinians in is no different to the cage the Jordanians and Lebanese keep their Palestinians in.
The Palestinians should be content they weren't used for bayonet practice long ago.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine Reply #49 - Aug 7^th, 2014 at 10:56pm CLFM I can respect your argument - IF , as it appears to me, you are not peddling the usual BS about Israel not targeting civilians.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

gizmo_2655

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Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine
Reply #50 - Aug 8^th, 2014 at 6:30pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7^th, 2014 at 10:56pm:

CLFM I can respect your argument - *IF* , as it appears to me, you are not peddling the usual BS about Israel not targeting civilians.

Well for me (and I know the comment was aimed at CLFM) it's not a case of Israel 'targeting civilians'...more that they don't always not fire if the civilians are in the area. Every military force in history has done their best to avoid civilian casualties, but not at the expense of giving the enemy combatants a free pass.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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freediver

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Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine
Reply #51 - Aug 8^th, 2014 at 6:33pm

Quote:

Israel maintains effective control of the Gaza strip - its borders, its agricultural land (buffer zones inside the strip are in fact still occupied), its coast and its airspace. Consequently, the unilateral withdrawal of Israeli troops and settlements means diddly squat to Gaza's occupied status under international law.

This is not "effective control" Gandalf. This is a blockade. Hamas is in control. They and the people supporting them are still responsible for their own decisions and actions.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine
Reply #52 - Aug 8^th, 2014 at 7:21pm

the Israeli blockade is not exercising effective control of Gaza - what a joke. Roll Eyes

freediver wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 6:33pm:

Hamas is in control. They and the people supporting them are still responsible for their own decisions and actions.

So? Most occupations have at least a semi-autonomous local authority. Completely irrelevant to the issue of whether they are occupied though. Neither hamas or the people of Gaza have any ability to develop their own economy - because they exist in an economy that is entirely dependent on the external power who decides what comes in and out of the strip - ie Israel.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49361 At my desk.	Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine Reply #53 - Aug 8^th, 2014 at 7:51pm Quote: So? Most occupations have at least a semi-autonomous local authority. So Hamas is "semi-autonomous" of Israel? Quote: they exist in an economy that is entirely dependent on the external power who decides what comes in and out of the strip - ie Israel Wrong.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine Reply #54 - Aug 8^th, 2014 at 8:14pm freediver wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 7:51pm: Wrong. Elaborate please.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine Reply #55 - Aug 8^th, 2014 at 8:18pm polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 8:14pm: freediver wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 7:51pm: Wrong. Elaborate please. Egypt. Egypt is their chief 'enabler'. But for Egypt they would have no rockets to fire at civilian targets in Israel.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49361 At my desk.	Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine Reply #56 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 9:02pm polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 8:14pm: freediver wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 7:51pm: Wrong. Elaborate please. No 'national' economy is entirely dependent on external trade.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine Reply #57 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:11pm freediver wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 9:02pm: No 'national' economy is entirely dependent on external trade. Sure, there's black markets courtesy of the tunnels - which is only to be expected in a society under complete walled blockade. But they are not sustainable or reliable.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49361 At my desk.	Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine Reply #58 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:33pm A tunnel is still external trade. Most economies are dominated by internal trade - things produced and sold within the borders. It's a very simple point I am trying to make here - no 'national' economy is entirely dependent on external trade.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The ethnic cleansing of Palestine Reply #59 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:45pm Gaza's domestic produce and industry exists entirely at the whim of Israel - who frequently destroy or deprive Gazan's access to. Thats kinda what I'm getting at with my "the occupation still exists" argument.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged