Australian Politics Forum - Surrogate mother ...

Emma

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Re: Surrogate mother ...
Reply #15 - Aug 6^th, 2014 at 6:17pm

Gnads wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 7:12am:

Emma wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 12:17am:

I WAS going to start a new thread Nope here we are.

I'll say UPFRONT,...
Surrogacy should not BE AN OPTION.

IF you are unable to conceive a child through natural measures... you are not fit parents. It SHOULD NOT BE !

Now before you get upset.. I don't mean .. 'not fit' as in any moral sense.. YOU would no doubt love your offspring....
But i am saying .. your genes and your partners genes,,,SHOULD NOT combine,....a far from optimal mix ....it should never be a forced conception.. which is what it is...

because the outcome will be FLAWED... one way or another.

Perhaps it doesn't show early, or perhaps it does... but these scientists and couples .. MUST REALIZE they are denying or subverting the order of life on Earth.

We humans have such hubris....!!! Cannot conceive..?? well we will anyway..!!

Such lack of connection with the life force of the earth... such insistence of human supremacy... I am at a loss.. Sad

The sheer greed and excess of need and wealth to deny nature..
no one wins in the end.
E

Well with that in mind then you would agree that fertile Lesbians should not be allowed access
to IVF? .... because that is not a natural conception & never
will be, it also forced.

Yeah I find that problematical.. good question.

My point is about incompatible heteros.. producing offspring .. children that are really not viable.. in terms of the health of the species generally.

Lesbians should be able to adopt.. as should infertile couples. There are many children who need a caring home.

This sort of desperation.. requiring surrogacy or IVF ... seems to me to be nothing but the extremes of ego and hubris. And very costly too, in human and economic terms.

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Re: Surrogate mother ...
Reply #16 - Aug 6^th, 2014 at 6:17pm

Emma wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 12:17am:

I WAS going to start a new thread Nope here we are.

I'll say UPFRONT,...
Surrogacy should not BE AN OPTION.

IF you are unable to conceive a child through natural measures... you are not fit parents. It SHOULD NOT BE !

Now before you get upset.. I don't mean .. 'not fit' as in any moral sense.. YOU would no doubt love your offspring....
But i am saying .. your genes and your partners genes,,,SHOULD NOT combine,....a far from optimal mix ....it should never be a forced conception.. which is what it is...

because the outcome will be FLAWED... one way or another.

Perhaps it doesn't show early, or perhaps it does... but these scientists and couples .. MUST REALIZE they are denying or subverting the order of life on Earth.

We humans have such hubris....!!! Cannot conceive..?? well we will anyway..!!

Such lack of connection with the life force of the earth... such insistence of human supremacy... I am at a loss.. Sad

The sheer greed and excess of need and wealth to deny nature..
no one wins in the end.

Congenitallly barren or defective people sure, but a lot of accidents happen.

What about the poor front bottom who got kicked in the balls by a horse, or a shiela who gets gang raped and is left infertile as a result?

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Surrogate mother ...
Reply #17 - Aug 6^th, 2014 at 6:28pm

Kytro wrote on Aug 5^th, 2014 at 5:36pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 5^th, 2014 at 7:44am:

Yes, I heard that. Apparently he was served time in the late 90s for "indecently dealing wth a child."

There should be an immediate investigation. If the reports are true and dependng on the nature of the crime, the Australan government needs to intervene and remove that little grl.

You realise these people are allowed to have children, generally once the sentence has been served they have the same rights as anyone else.

Yes, I realise that "these people" are allowed to have children. It's one of the greatest flaws in our society.

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Emma

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Re: Surrogate mother ...
Reply #18 - Aug 6^th, 2014 at 6:58pm

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 6:17pm:

Emma wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 12:17am:

I WAS going to start a new thread Nope here we are.

I'll say UPFRONT,...
Surrogacy should not BE AN OPTION.

IF you are unable to conceive a child through natural measures... you are not fit parents. It SHOULD NOT BE !

Now before you get upset.. I don't mean .. 'not fit' as in any moral sense.. YOU would no doubt love your offspring....
But i am saying .. your genes and your partners genes,,,SHOULD NOT combine,....a far from optimal mix ....it should never be a forced conception.. which is what it is...

because the outcome will be FLAWED... one way or another.

Perhaps it doesn't show early, or perhaps it does... but these scientists and couples .. MUST REALIZE they are denying or subverting the order of life on Earth.

We humans have such hubris....!!! Cannot conceive..?? well we will anyway..!!

Such lack of connection with the life force of the earth... such insistence of human supremacy... I am at a loss.. Sad

The sheer greed and excess of need and wealth to deny nature..
no one wins in the end.

Congenitallly barren or defective people sure, but a lot of accidents happen.

What about the poor nice person who got kicked in the balls by a horse, or a shiela who gets gang raped and is left infertile as a result?

Well that IS what I am saying... people harmed thru accident or violence .., but otherwise able to conceive with their partner, are viable parents... who can produce sound children.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38785 Gender:	Re: Surrogate mother ... Reply #19 - Aug 6^th, 2014 at 7:43pm Farnell (the Aussie Dad) is stuffed by his grotty past. Multiple offences involving 5 (+-) year olds. Seems he has a clean recent record, but..........Nah. This is gonna be a nightmare to resolve.
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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Surrogate mother ... Reply #20 - Aug 7^th, 2014 at 12:04am more money for lawyers..
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True Blue...

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Re: Surrogate mother ...
Reply #21 - Aug 7^th, 2014 at 7:08am

Aussie wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 7:43pm:

Farnell (the Aussie Dad) is stuffed by his grotty past. Multiple offences involving 5 (+-) year olds. Seems he has a clean recent record, but..........Nah.

This is gonna be a nightmare to resolve.

when he was charged with paedophilia on crimes against 7 to 10 year olds. 18 charges.... the Judge gave him a lenient sentence due to what a Great Bloke he was... Shocked

its like a lot of these judges are paedo's and rapists of women as they always seem to give lenient sentences in these circumstances... Angry

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Kytro

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Re: Surrogate mother ...
Reply #22 - Aug 8^th, 2014 at 12:18am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 6:28pm:

Kytro wrote on Aug 5^th, 2014 at 5:36pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 5^th, 2014 at 7:44am:

Yes, I heard that. Apparently he was served time in the late 90s for "indecently dealing wth a child."

There should be an immediate investigation. If the reports are true and dependng on the nature of the crime, the Australan government needs to intervene and remove that little grl.

You realise these people are allowed to have children, generally once the sentence has been served they have the same rights as anyone else.

Yes, I realise that "these people" are allowed to have children. It's one of the greatest flaws in our society.

My point is really that if they are no longer considered a significant risk then they should have the same rights, if they are then we need to question why they are free to act without some form of oversight.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Surrogate mother ...
Reply #23 - Aug 8^th, 2014 at 6:18pm

Aussie wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 7:43pm:

Farnell (the Aussie Dad) is stuffed by his grotty past. Multiple offences involving 5 (+-) year olds. Seems he has a clean recent record, but..........Nah.

This is gonna be a nightmare to resolve.

The best thing he could do is to go on some second-rate tabloid TV show and tell his story.

Nah, just kidding: he wouldn't be that stupid Grin

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au//stories/8887943/the-australian-parents-of-ba...

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Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 16619 In your happy place Gender:	Re: Surrogate mother ... Reply #24 - Aug 10^th, 2014 at 4:26pm Below is a great movie I saw on a similar theme. A downs syndrome child born as a set of twins. Father tells wife the second of the twins died. Father gets nurse to take child to a home for such children but nurse decides to keep the baby and she grows into a teenager before mother and brother reunite with her again.
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ian

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Re: Surrogate mother ...
Reply #25 - Aug 10^th, 2014 at 5:12pm

Kytro wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 12:18am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 6^th, 2014 at 6:28pm:

Kytro wrote on Aug 5^th, 2014 at 5:36pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 5^th, 2014 at 7:44am:

Yes, I heard that. Apparently he was served time in the late 90s for "indecently dealing wth a child."

There should be an immediate investigation. If the reports are true and dependng on the nature of the crime, the Australan government needs to intervene and remove that little grl.

You realise these people are allowed to have children, generally once the sentence has been served they have the same rights as anyone else.

Yes, I realise that "these people" are allowed to have children. It's one of the greatest flaws in our society.

My point is really that if they are no longer considered a significant risk then they should have the same rights, if they are then we need to question why they are free to act without some form of oversight.

a serial pedophile offender is always a risk and is never cured. Inevitably this man will molest his own child or some one others again. I suspect the primary motive for actually having his own children is to be able to molest them unhindered.

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Surrogate mother ... Reply #26 - Aug 10^th, 2014 at 10:32pm agree
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jfish1936

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Re: Surrogate mother ...
Reply #27 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 12:41pm

Maybe a side issue, apologies:
People talk about "IVF" for lesbians, where the woman has no obstruction to normal conception.
Now IVF is a complex expensive and invasive procedure.
How do I know? Two of my grandchildren were conceived that way, to a married Christian couple.
Artificial insemination with donor sperm is much easier and safer, and I see no reason to deny that to lesbians.
Maybe, as it is to cater for their own prejudice, they should pay the cost rather than getting it on Medicare.
Please, if you talk about *assisted conception*, don't use "IVF" as a convenient shorthand for a wide range of techniques of which it is only one.

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Gnads

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Re: Surrogate mother ...
Reply #28 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 2:32pm

jfish1936 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

Maybe a side issue, apologies:
People talk about "IVF" for lesbians, where the woman has no obstruction to normal conception.
Now IVF is a complex expensive and invasive procedure.
How do I know? Two of my grandchildren were conceived that way, to a married Christian couple.
Artificial insemination with donor sperm is much easier and safer, and I see no reason to deny that to lesbians.
Maybe, as it is to cater for their own prejudice, they should pay the cost rather than getting it on Medicare.
Please, if you talk about *assisted conception*, don't use "IVF" as a convenient shorthand for a wide range of techniques of which it is only one.

Agree ..... they can use a gay mate & a turkey baster

not taxpayer subsidised medical procedures Angry

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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Crocodile Hunter: Origins Posts: 25011 Rockhampton Gender:	Re: Surrogate mother ... Reply #29 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 11:14pm Okay, I admit that I was wrong in thinking that it was a white couple that was having the child, and that the child was the result of artificial insemination. Didn't even consider that it could have been an Asian/white couple.
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