Australian Politics Forum - Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax

____ Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33410 Australia Gender:	Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax Reply #45 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:23pm Intervening is fine, just not war mongering just for the sake of it without understanding the full ramifications. IS is just the a product of previously bad thought out reactions. By reacting to this situation in a similar way will produce an even worse foes down the track.
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____

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Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax
Reply #46 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:25pm

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:21pm:

____ wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:08pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:06pm:

It seems the only two options available to many in this discussion are either all out war or appeasement.

Ironically, the solution may be somewhere in the middle, but that is never going to suit the radicals of any group.

I have no recollection of anyone calling for appeasement on the thread so far. If I am incorrect, can you point it out.

Yeah I am sure you are correct, as far as this thread goes. I suppose I should have followed forum form and started a whole new thread to make my point.

I invite you to think outside of the square for just a moment. Consider the number of times the "left" have been accused (for example) of appeasement. Arguably some of those times have been correct, however, not all.

As such, this is just another thread discussing how people with differing beliefs may address their differences. Consequently I made the observation that, based on belief, culture, ideology and wealth (monetary), it seems that the most radical of the opposing camps view that there are only two choices. I would suggest that this is a polarising effect that only radicals will buy into.

In short, not all Muslims are or have a desire to be terrorist. Likewise, not all terrorists (demonstrably) are Muslims or have carried out acts of terrorism in the name of Allah per se.

It has been said over and over again, there are no winners. Yet still there is this ongoing argument that offers nothing but a win lose position. Clearly, that equates to being a lose lose in reality, yet neither side seems to grasp this. To my mind that is because, they have allowed their beliefs to trump all else.

In no disagreement to your post, can I as what is a terrorist?

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Phemanderac

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Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax
Reply #47 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:29pm

____ wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:25pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:21pm:

____ wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:08pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:06pm:

It seems the only two options available to many in this discussion are either all out war or appeasement.

Ironically, the solution may be somewhere in the middle, but that is never going to suit the radicals of any group.

I have no recollection of anyone calling for appeasement on the thread so far. If I am incorrect, can you point it out.

Yeah I am sure you are correct, as far as this thread goes. I suppose I should have followed forum form and started a whole new thread to make my point.

I invite you to think outside of the square for just a moment. Consider the number of times the "left" have been accused (for example) of appeasement. Arguably some of those times have been correct, however, not all.

As such, this is just another thread discussing how people with differing beliefs may address their differences. Consequently I made the observation that, based on belief, culture, ideology and wealth (monetary), it seems that the most radical of the opposing camps view that there are only two choices. I would suggest that this is a polarising effect that only radicals will buy into.

In short, not all Muslims are or have a desire to be terrorist. Likewise, not all terrorists (demonstrably) are Muslims or have carried out acts of terrorism in the name of Allah per se.

It has been said over and over again, there are no winners. Yet still there is this ongoing argument that offers nothing but a win lose position. Clearly, that equates to being a lose lose in reality, yet neither side seems to grasp this. To my mind that is because, they have allowed their beliefs to trump all else.

In no disagreement to your post, can I as what is a terrorist?

Of course, but, can I clarify, do you want the dictionary term, what my view of that might be or would it suffice to say that, in my opinion, the term "terrorist" is somewhat fluid in its application? You know, the old saying "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter".

I was using the term in what I reckon is the general vernacular, i.e. someone who commits an act of extremism involving violence against a predominantly helpless (undefended) citizenry...

To be fair, that last is most likely what my definition (or understanding) of the modern vernacular is.

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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woof woof

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Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax
Reply #48 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 1:07pm

why at the beginning of WWII were Germans in Australia rounded up.

Were they deemed a threat to Australia now that war had been declared on their country of origin??

Would Muslims pose the same threat in Australia if we went to war against Islam, why aren't the leaders of muslim rallies against the west rounded up today and shipped back to some desert poo hole where they and their stone age religion belongs?

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ian

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Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax
Reply #49 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 1:11pm

woof woof wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 1:07pm:

why at the beginning of WWII were Germans in Australia rounded up.

Were they deemed a threat to Australia now that war had been declared on their country of origin??

Would Muslims pose the same threat in Australia if we went to war against Islam, why aren't the leaders of muslim rallies against the west rounded up today and shipped back to some desert poo hole where they and their stone age religion belongs?

not sure if you are aware of this but German is not a religion and Muslim is not a country,.

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woof woof Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1518 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax Reply #50 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 1:12pm stay on track mate
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax
Reply #51 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 1:34pm

adelcrow wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 11:35am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 11:21am:

____ wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 10:30am:

I am not defending muslims, I am opposing another pointless war.

A pointless century long war which has to be financed if we take the conservative's path.
So how will the conservatives finance their war?

What is pointless about defending our country and way of life? Do you want us to end up like Iraq, where IS militants are giving you a choice: convert to Islam or die?

The vast majority of Muslims in the countries you mention are the victims of terrorism and the insurgents.
A small number of radicalised Muslims are terrorising the majority of moderate Muslims.
In fact if Howard and Bush hadnt invaded the region the problem wouldnt exist coz Saddam was very good at killing terrorists and those that didnt want to live in a secular Iraq.

Saddam was also extremely good at killing his OWN people!!! He didn't need terrorists for that, he used his Republican Guard. The only reason he fought terrorists was because he didn't want them taking his power.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax
Reply #52 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:37pm

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:15pm:

Of course, Muslims are always the victims, even when they are hacking people's heads off.

Its a simple statement of fact FD.

- estimated 49 thousand muslims killed by terrorists in Pakistan - including those who were fighting them:
http://tribune.com.pk/story/527016/pakistani-victims-war-on-terror-toll-put-at-4...

- well over 100 thousand muslims killed by terrorists in Iraq since 2008:
http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2011/195555.htm

Muslims suffer far more than anyone else as a result of islamic terrorism. Simple statement of fact.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax
Reply #53 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:41pm

woof woof wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 1:07pm:

why at the beginning of WWII were Germans in Australia rounded up.

Were they deemed a threat to Australia now that war had been declared on their country of origin??

Would Muslims pose the same threat in Australia if we went to war against Islam, why aren't the leaders of muslim rallies against the west rounded up today and shipped back to some desert poo hole where they and their stone age religion belongs?

Yes - my German family had some trouble there.. even though the men were off fighting for Australia or in protected work like police. An uncle, my father's oldest brother, died on 11/9/1940 at the height of the Battle of Britain. My aunt, his sister, was challenged on the street as a Nazi... furthest thing from her mind.

Strange behaviour. I'm currently writing a novel that includes a Hawaiian Japanese family taken into internment.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Shakey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 905 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax Reply #54 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:44pm In Australia we've had loads of shonky insurance claims, millions lost due to crime, millions spent on security to monitor radical islamics, people rorting the dole etc. Has the Islamic/arab presence in Australia really been that beneficial??
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax Reply #55 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:47pm Gandy, how do you tell the good muslims from the bad ones before violence starts? Any clues? Or do we always, always wait for the attrocity and then say it is just a tiny minority? This supposedly tiny minority has been giving Islam a bad name since the 7th century and is still at it wherever muslims go.
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Bobby.

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Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax
Reply #56 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:50pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 1:34pm:

adelcrow wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 11:35am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 11:21am:

____ wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 10:30am:

I am not defending muslims, I am opposing another pointless war.

A pointless century long war which has to be financed if we take the conservative's path.
So how will the conservatives finance their war?

What is pointless about defending our country and way of life? Do you want us to end up like Iraq, where IS militants are giving you a choice: convert to Islam or die?

The vast majority of Muslims in the countries you mention are the victims of terrorism and the insurgents.
A small number of radicalised Muslims are terrorising the majority of moderate Muslims.
In fact if Howard and Bush hadnt invaded the region the problem wouldnt exist coz Saddam was very good at killing terrorists and those that didnt want to live in a secular Iraq.

Saddam was also extremely good at killing his OWN people!!! He didn't need terrorists for that, he used his Republican Guard. The only reason he fought terrorists was because he didn't want them taking his power.

As a result of the uprising after Gulf war 1 didn't Saddam take
over 10,000 rebels & massacre them in the desert?

He didn't muck around with his fellow Muslims.
They all feared him with good reason.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax
Reply #57 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:54pm

Soren wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:47pm:

Gandy, how do you tell the good muslims from the bad ones before violence starts?
Any clues?

But what is a "good" muslim Soren? Isn't it a contradiction in terms?

You and others have made it pretty clear for a long time that you don't consider any muslim "good". You lot have made it perfectly clear that being muslim is entirely incompatible with being "good" - though I will concede that from time to time you do come across as one of the more reasonable people on this side.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax
Reply #58 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 3:01pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:54pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:47pm:

Gandy, how do you tell the good muslims from the bad ones before violence starts?
Any clues?

But what is a "good" muslim Soren? Isn't it a contradiction in terms?

You and others have made it pretty clear for a long time that you don't consider any muslim "good". You lot have made it perfectly clear that being muslim is entirely incompatible with being "good" - though I will concede that from time to time you do come across as one of the more reasonable people on this side.

So how do you tell the good ones from th bad ones in pakistan, syria, gaza, egypt, labia, australia? How do you identify the 'tiny minority' before the violence and intimidation start? Or are you suspicious of every muslim you do not personally know?

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freediver

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Re: Abbott's Muslim 100 Yr War Tax
Reply #59 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 5:05pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:37pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 12:15pm:

Of course, Muslims are always the victims, even when they are hacking people's heads off.

Its a simple statement of fact FD.

- estimated 49 thousand muslims killed by terrorists in Pakistan - including those who were fighting them:
http://tribune.com.pk/story/527016/pakistani-victims-war-on-terror-toll-put-at-4...

- well over 100 thousand muslims killed by terrorists in Iraq since 2008:
http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2011/195555.htm

Muslims suffer far more than anyone else as a result of islamic terrorism. Simple statement of fact.

Of course. Muslims are victims, by definition.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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