Australian Politics Forum - Womens Biggest Issues Are ...

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10259
Gender: male

Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #825 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 6:41am

mothra wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:14am:

... wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:59pm:

mothra wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 1:12am:

As for women being "big children" ... pah! Girls grow up much faster than boys. I am parent to both and can testify. I can also testify to being sexualised at a very young age by men. I was 12. I remember it well.

I agree.

But once again, youve substituted a different question to avoid facing a difficult answer.

Schopenhauer had this covered too. Immediately preceding the quote I posted:

Quote:

The nobler and more perfect a thing is, the later and slower it is in arriving at maturity. A man reaches the maturity of his reasoning powers and mental faculties hardly before the age of twenty-eight; a woman at eighteen. And then, too, in the case of woman, it is only reason of a sort--very niggard in its dimensions.

I'm not particularly interested in viewing the world as it is through the eyes of some dead white guy who lived in an era where women were oppressed to the point of not being allowed to be educated.

I'm surprised you quote him, considering how inapplicable his 'philosophy' is to modern circumstance.

Desperation maybe?

So you're racist and sexist. Grin

Back to top

IP Logged

Phemanderac

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3507
Gender: male

Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #826 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 7:48am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 6:40am:

mothra wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 1:12am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 8:31pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:42pm:

He is wrong because of "Women themselves are children"....

That could be described, at best, as a statement of his times based on biased observation and nothing to do with biological developmental (or, ironically, psychological fact).

The brain development of men and women in terms of emotional maturity relies pretty much on the same "training" as it were. It relies on the same development of the wiring in our brain.

Anyone who can, for example, demonstrate even a degree of self regulation, has developed a degree of emotional maturity. Therefore, those of us who demonstrate significant self regulation are, in effect, adults regardless of gender.

I acknowledge, that in Schopenhauer's day, there were really no significantly advance studies in how we mature, so he was forced, in effect to make a guess. He got it wrong because of the above.

As to....

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:33pm:

He's wrong because you hurt me.

I have previously given you more credit for reading, comprehension and degree of critical thinking.... You see that, I was wrong obviously - like I said, we can all get it wrong with our opinions....

The correct quote is "big children".

Given that more women gravitate to child-rearing and nursing, and not to garbage collection or astrophysics, there must be some genetic predisposition underlying this propensity. Despite a concerted social engineering campaign, the pattern hasn't been altered to much degree.

You're behind the times. And you call yourself an academic! When was the last time you were published?

Women cross the boards. Men do too. Isn't it lovely?

As for women being "big children" ... pah! Girls grow up much faster than boys. I am parent to both and can testify. I can also testify to being sexualised at a very young age by men. I was 12. I remember it well.

Boys do not have to deal with that.

Women know what it is to age. We are not children.

Idiots.

So what is the reason for more women being child-raisers and nurses?

Social constructs...

Back to top

On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

IP Logged

...

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male

Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #827 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:15am

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 7:48am:

Social constructs...

This is the same mistake every nice person on this forum makes. Always trying to make something entirely due to one cause. If you're trying to isolate an entirely genetic cause, or an entirely cultural cause, you're doing it wrong. They are in an endless feedback loop, each influencing the other - if a condition is endured long enough, the genome is influenced. If our genome is influenced, it is reflected in society.

So even though we can clearly see genetic reasons why the sexes occupy different roles, the example being child rearers and nurses, which are obviously related to them actually bearing the children, it would not even matter if distinct roles arose due to "social constructs" - that they have endured ever since a time before we were even homo sapiens, means they have influenced our genome to such an extent that these roles are now part of our genetic make up. They are who we are.

we are evolving in real time, under the pressure of discernable social and historical forces — is true. Rather than a monologue of genetics, or a soliloquy of culture, there is a dialectic between genetics and culture.

Culture and genetics are traditionally thought of as two separate processes, but researchers are increasingly realising that they are intimately connected, each influencing the natural progression of the other. Scientists call it "gene-culture co-evolution."

Genes Affect Culture; Culture Affects Genesi

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:26am by ... »

In the fullness of time...

IP Logged

... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #828 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:23am ...
Back to top	In the fullness of time... IP Logged

Lisa Jones

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female

Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #829 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:36am

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 8:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 8:31pm:

Given that more women gravitate to child-rearing and nursing, and not to garbage collection or astrophysics, there must be some genetic predisposition underlying this propensity.

Must? Well, sure that's your opinion and of course, you are absolutely entitled to it...

Given that women and only women can give birth and breast feed...we're so busy that we don't have the time to delve into astrophysics, well not until our kids start pre school.

The problem is that by then we're behind the 8 ball because we've been effectively locked out of the workforce for a number of years and as such, our resumes are now stale.

It feels like we're being punished for replenishing the future workforce.

Back to top

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

IP Logged

Phemanderac

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3507
Gender: male

Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #830 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:02pm

... wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:15am:

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 7:48am:

Social constructs...

This is the same mistake every nice person on this forum makes. Always trying to make something entirely due to one cause. If you're trying to isolate an entirely genetic cause, or an entirely cultural cause, you're doing it wrong. They are in an endless feedback loop, each influencing the other - if a condition is endured long enough, the genome is influenced. If our genome is influenced, it is reflected in society.

So even though we can clearly see genetic reasons why the sexes occupy different roles, the example being child rearers and nurses, which are obviously related to them actually bearing the children, it would not even matter if distinct roles arose due to "social constructs" - that they have endured ever since a time before we were even homo sapiens, means they have influenced our genome to such an extent that these roles are now part of our genetic make up. They are who we are.

we are evolving in real time, under the pressure of discernable social and historical forces — is true. Rather than a monologue of genetics, or a soliloquy of culture, there is a dialectic between genetics and culture.

Culture and genetics are traditionally thought of as two separate processes, but researchers are increasingly realising that they are intimately connected, each influencing the natural progression of the other. Scientists call it "gene-culture co-evolution."

Genes Affect Culture; Culture Affects Genes

Perhaps that is the case.

It seemed fairly evident that Mr Christakis seems to be postulating a change in his own thinking. That said, it does not follow on that ALL social constructs have accurately "spoken" with genetics, after all, that's just this blokes idea and not proven....

As such it seems also clearly evident to consider the prospect that, social constructs - like for example the professional roles different genders may adopt - are not always accurate or appropriate reflections of genetic drivers....

So, yes I think you raise a good point that genetics and social constructs can have a dialogue and can build and contribute to each other, however, to suggest that has occurred naturally to date would be erroneous and limited thinking.

I would point to the early comments in the article that you provided to support that idea, after all, the very man you are quoting reported that it was relatively recently that he "changed his mind"...

It would be genuinely interesting to see how much peer reviewed support his change of mind is garnering...But that's another story.

Back to top

On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

IP Logged

Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #831 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:07pm Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:36am: Given that women and only women can give birth and breast feed Well, I know you meant to say female of the species... Cause women generally don't birth cats, rats, bats, dogs, mice etc etc etc....
Back to top	On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day... "They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean.. IP Logged

...

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male

Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #832 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 3:36pm

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

genetics and social constructs can have a dialogue and can build and contribute to each other, however, to suggest that has occurred naturally to date would be erroneous and limited thinking.

Not sure what you mean?

Forces are still at work whether we're aware of them or not. After all, gravity kept us rooted to the earth before Isaac newtons day.

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

I would point to the early comments in the article that you provided to support that idea, after all, the very man you are quoting reported that it was relatively recently that he "changed his mind"...

It is stunning that supposed "experts" still have some disconnect between the very fundamentals of their field, and it's implications. I don't think hids "change of mind" was so much about new information, as it is about the obscuring veil of ideology letting a ray of truth shine through.

When I first read 'guns germs and steel" which people rave about, I was dissatisfied at it's ignorance of this concept. So I came online to put an accepted term to this "feedback loop" which I thought was intuitive, and was shocked to find it was supposedly a "new" and "controversial" theory. Better they catch up now than never I guess.

Back to top

In the fullness of time...

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10259
Gender: male

Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #833 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 5:35pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:36am:

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 8:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 8:31pm:

Given that more women gravitate to child-rearing and nursing, and not to garbage collection or astrophysics, there must be some genetic predisposition underlying this propensity.

Must? Well, sure that's your opinion and of course, you are absolutely entitled to it...

Given that women and only women can give birth and breast feed...we're so busy that we don't have the time to delve into astrophysics, well not until our kids start pre school.

The problem is that by then we're behind the 8 ball because we've been effectively locked out of the workforce for a number of years and as such, our resumes are now stale.

It feels like we're being punished for replenishing the future workforce.

Who says you're being punished for raising children? You should think carefully where these messages are coming from.

Back to top

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10259
Gender: male

Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #834 - Jul 7^th, 2015 at 6:00pm

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

So, yes I think you raise a good point that genetics and social constructs can have a dialogue and can build and contribute to each other, however, to suggest that has occurred naturally to date would be erroneous and limited thinking.

How does something occur unnaturally? What does unnatural mean?

Back to top

IP Logged

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #835 - Sep 4^th, 2015 at 9:38pm https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/29390116/models-powerful-domestic-violence-photograp... A very big issue for women.
Back to top	If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free. HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415) IP Logged

Jovial Monk

Gold Member

Offline

Dogs not cats!

Posts: 45884
Gender: male

Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #836 - Sep 27^th, 2015 at 6:31pm

Domestic violence is a terrible thing. abbott took a lot of funding away from DV programs, the refuges and legal advice centres, Premier Baird closed DV refuges. Malodorous announced $100m of extra funding but little of this actually goes to women fleeing DV:

http://noplaceforsheep.com/2015/09/27/give-us-shelter-why-new-dv-funding-isnt-an...

Back to top

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.

IP Logged

Agnes

Gold Member

Offline

fish dinner

Posts: 6081
Bedford Park rnd

Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #837 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 2:13pm

There is a thread running on another forum and I really cannot believe the ignorance surrounding the domestic violence issue here in Australia, its almost as if, if we are not branded a Muslim nation then violence against women does not exist in this country ..the issue is a non event according to a few in that place.!!

Back to top

x=^..^= x <o((((>< ~~~ x=^..^=x~~~x=^..^=x<o((((><~~~x=^..^=x

farewell to days of wild abandon and freedom in the adriatic

IP Logged

Jovial Monk

Gold Member

Offline

Dogs not cats!

Posts: 45884
Gender: male

Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #838 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 2:39pm

Miranda Devine wrote a foul column, saying DV occurred only in low socio-economic areas. Ha, some of the worst DV takes place in high wealth/income areas.

My younger sister is married to a real control freak, controls even his five kids, drives to each of them each night, keeping tabs. Not all DV is physical nor is it only women who suffer tho usually it is the woman. None of my sister’s kids have come to visit their grandma!

Back to top

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.

IP Logged

Agnes Gold Member Offline fish dinner Posts: 6081 Bedford Park rnd	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #839 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:57pm Yes she is an idiot and very insulting to women- her article was put up over there too, give me a break
Back to top	x=^..^= x <o((((>< ~~~ x=^..^=x~~~x=^..^=x<o((((><~~~x=^..^=x farewell to days of wild abandon and freedom in the adriatic IP Logged