Australian Politics Forum - Womens Biggest Issues Are ...

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #180 - May 12^th, 2015 at 5:07pm You know what? It's nice to see a FEW males contribute. Most seem to be staying away. Just an observation.....
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Agnes Gold Member Offline fish dinner Posts: 6081 Bedford Park rnd	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #181 - May 12^th, 2015 at 8:26pm Why are you here Lisa?
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Agnes Gold Member Offline fish dinner Posts: 6081 Bedford Park rnd	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #182 - May 12^th, 2015 at 8:27pm Lisa Jones wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 5:07pm: You know what? It's nice to see a FEW males contribute. Most seem to be staying away. Just an observation..... The more males the better hey Lisa- ?
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Phemanderac

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #183 - May 12^th, 2015 at 9:07pm

rhino wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 3:56pm:

Phemanderac wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 6:53am:

rhino wrote on May 11^th, 2015 at 10:42pm:

Emma wrote on May 11^th, 2015 at 10:13pm:

You seem to not understand the relativity of statistical analysis, and you haven't really shown anything except a specific bias.

Rubbish. I have already analysed and understand these iusues.

Quote:

Personally I am entitled to my OPINIONS.. as r u.

But don't claim kudos you'd never be able to achieve. What a joke.

My posts are based on direct life experience and factual information. Not opinion.

That is the basis of opinion...

DV knows no boundaries with culture, race, religion, gender, demograph or fiscal worth.

Simply put, some situations have more than one factor driving the problem along.

The ONLY real problem is the complicit denial of how wide spread the problem is.

Your OPINION contributes to said denial.

The major victims by the way are not ADULTS who, presumably, should know better and certainly should do better, the really major victims are children...

This gets lost consistently in all the competitive angst disguised as a debate.

No one said DV was exclusive to any particular group, but what is factual is that it occurs much more frequently amongst certain groups. Aboriginals outweigh all others in DV statistics, this is regardless of occupation , location or socioeconomic status. The one factor common is culture. These are facts, you should try them sometime instead of concentrating on the messenger. So if you really want to appear semi intelligent you may compose a response to me based on these facts.

Actually, I did address your post with facts. Fact is, it is opinion.

Certainly it is a somewhat informed opinion, however, the reason I highlighted your opinion is because, as I pointed out, it deflects away from the overall issue. DV occurs across the board.

The only significance of culture, in FACT, is that it will inform people genuinely trying to find solutions to this endemic situation about any "sensitive" issues. Further, it will help inform (to the engaged person at least) potential pathways to support people from different cultures in dealing with their own demons.

The other FACT about culture is, that when it comes to issues of DV (actually most violence for that matter) it is in effect its own subculture - often at best, hiding behind (or underneath) other main cultural identity, boundaries, structures etc. You know, creating the "taboo" that outsiders can't go there....

Further, if you want to intellectually discuss statistics, you may need to cast the net a tad further than simply demonstrating why your OPINION regarding specific races is somehow significant. Why? Because, there are a wide range of issues regarding DV - for example, inter relationship homicide. Perhaps the most extreme outcome from DV, look up the stats for that sometime.

The point though, all of your finger pointing does not even come close to addressing the single main issue, i.e. how do we solve, reduce, minimize or (as unlikely as it is) eradicate this Domestic Violence issue? That is what I take issue with.

Clearly, there is no single one size fits all solution, talking about it isn't a bad start.

Getting men and women to talk about it together with each other and not at each other isn't a bad next step.

Or we can keep pointing fingers away, make it someone else's problem, we can deny, deflect or disown (woohoo, had to practice some alliteration) and thus perpetuate the problem....

So, sure, in some areas Aboriginal women are well and truly over represented, granted, now that we have that out in the open though, it is not all that relevant to any solutions is it...

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Phemanderac

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #184 - May 12^th, 2015 at 9:20pm

rhino wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 3:59pm:

Phemanderac wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 6:53am:

[
The major victims by the way are not ADULTS who, presumably, should know better and certainly should do better, the really major victims are children...

This gets lost consistently in all the competitive angst disguised as a debate.

And no, this doesnt get lost on my at all. Do you think the fact that white kids are much more likely to be removed from families where they are being abused than abo kids helps them any? Why dont we keep pretending theres no issue with these people.

Sigh, the fact is, kids being abused, neglected (witnessing DV does fall under abuse and neglect) will be removed if;

a) The matter is reported and the FACT the kids witnessed it is also reported - that will mean a mandatory report to the appropriate state child protection authority.

b) The issue scores high enough on the ROSH scale.... (ROSH = Risk of Serious Harm).

Now a couple of things to consider there are;

The ages of the children - the older they are the less likely removal is.

Aboriginal children are removed, albeit, a bit more reluctantly due to Stolen Generation issues - yep a fact. However, age is a factor still.

Now personally, with regard to child protection, I would posit that it is underfunded and consequently under resources. As such, not ALL children at risk get removed, despite numerous reports.... A sad reality.

Oh, and child protection workers are also just people too, as such, sometimes errors of judgement occur. Sadly, this can also cost kids their lives, happiness or fail to protect their well being.

And try to remember, in all of this, whether it be due to DV or other issues of child abuse, neglect or failure to provide protection - it began with the parents more often than not.

So, resolve or at least reduce the occurrences of DV and a big child protection issue is also resolved.

Not sure who is pretending there is no issue with "these people" clearly they are people, so there are issues. Why do we spend so much energy denying our own issues I wonder?

Finally, that comment was not aimed solely at you, in fact it is clearly articulated. All the angst ridden (and I will add, finger pointing) people claim as "debate" blatantly ignores discussing child safety or well being concerns.

This thread is no different, given in all the pages so far, it had not come up til I pointed it out.

So, I am please it is not lost on you, however, your response clearly demonstrates the opinion that it is mostly about them other fellas - when in FACT it is about all of us.

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

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Emma

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #185 - May 12^th, 2015 at 9:37pm

yes Phemanderac.. well put, and totally relevant.
This has a much wider impact than just 'Womens Issues', though.
It is truly societal.

what you say is very true. I am responsible for my own words.

I am pretty sure I brought children in to the equation earlier on , but cannot deny that I have largely ignored the child abuse that is too often involved.
I think it's because to me that seems implicit, where violent relationships exist alongside child - raising responsibilities.

Yes I would say it almost always begins with the parents, whomever they happen to be. Sad

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rhino

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #186 - May 12^th, 2015 at 9:47pm

Phemanderac wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 9:20pm:

rhino wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 3:59pm:

Phemanderac wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 6:53am:

[
The major victims by the way are not ADULTS who, presumably, should know better and certainly should do better, the really major victims are children...

This gets lost consistently in all the competitive angst disguised as a debate.

And no, this doesnt get lost on my at all. Do you think the fact that white kids are much more likely to be removed from families where they are being abused than abo kids helps them any? Why dont we keep pretending theres no issue with these people.

Sigh, the fact is, kids being abused, neglected (witnessing DV does fall under abuse and neglect) will be removed if;

a) The matter is reported and the FACT the kids witnessed it is also reported - that will mean a mandatory report to the appropriate state child protection authority.

b) The issue scores high enough on the ROSH scale.... (ROSH = Risk of Serious Harm).

Now a couple of things to consider there are;

The ages of the children - the older they are the less likely removal is.

Aboriginal children are removed, albeit, a bit more reluctantly due to Stolen Generation issues - yep a fact. However, age is a factor still.

Now personally, with regard to child protection, I would posit that it is underfunded and consequently under resources. As such, not ALL children at risk get removed, despite numerous reports.... A sad reality.

Oh, and child protection workers are also just people too, as such, sometimes errors of judgement occur. Sadly, this can also cost kids their lives, happiness or fail to protect their well being.

And try to remember, in all of this, whether it be due to DV or other issues of child abuse, neglect or failure to provide protection - it began with the parents more often than not.

So, resolve or at least reduce the occurrences of DV and a big child protection issue is also resolved.

Not sure who is pretending there is no issue with "these people" clearly they are people, so there are issues. Why do we spend so much energy denying our own issues I wonder?

Finally, that comment was not aimed solely at you, in fact it is clearly articulated. All the angst ridden (and I will add, finger pointing) people claim as "debate" blatantly ignores discussing child safety or well being concerns.

This thread is no different, given in all the pages so far, it had not come up til I pointed it out.

So, I am please it is not lost on you, however, your response clearly demonstrates the opinion that it is mostly about them other fellas - when in FACT it is about all of us.

sorry mate, absolute first class bs. Abo kids will almost never be removed despite clear evidence of abuse and neglect. You couldnt be more naive.

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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #187 - May 13^th, 2015 at 3:22pm

rhino wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 9:47pm:

Phemanderac wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 9:20pm:

rhino wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 3:59pm:

Phemanderac wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 6:53am:

[
The major victims by the way are not ADULTS who, presumably, should know better and certainly should do better, the really major victims are children...

This gets lost consistently in all the competitive angst disguised as a debate.

And no, this doesnt get lost on my at all. Do you think the fact that white kids are much more likely to be removed from families where they are being abused than abo kids helps them any? Why dont we keep pretending theres no issue with these people.

Sigh, the fact is, kids being abused, neglected (witnessing DV does fall under abuse and neglect) will be removed if;

a) The matter is reported and the FACT the kids witnessed it is also reported - that will mean a mandatory report to the appropriate state child protection authority.

b) The issue scores high enough on the ROSH scale.... (ROSH = Risk of Serious Harm).

Now a couple of things to consider there are;

The ages of the children - the older they are the less likely removal is.

Aboriginal children are removed, albeit, a bit more reluctantly due to Stolen Generation issues - yep a fact. However, age is a factor still.

Now personally, with regard to child protection, I would posit that it is underfunded and consequently under resources. As such, not ALL children at risk get removed, despite numerous reports.... A sad reality.

Oh, and child protection workers are also just people too, as such, sometimes errors of judgement occur. Sadly, this can also cost kids their lives, happiness or fail to protect their well being.

And try to remember, in all of this, whether it be due to DV or other issues of child abuse, neglect or failure to provide protection - it began with the parents more often than not.

So, resolve or at least reduce the occurrences of DV and a big child protection issue is also resolved.

Not sure who is pretending there is no issue with "these people" clearly they are people, so there are issues. Why do we spend so much energy denying our own issues I wonder?

Finally, that comment was not aimed solely at you, in fact it is clearly articulated. All the angst ridden (and I will add, finger pointing) people claim as "debate" blatantly ignores discussing child safety or well being concerns.

This thread is no different, given in all the pages so far, it had not come up til I pointed it out.

So, I am please it is not lost on you, however, your response clearly demonstrates the opinion that it is mostly about them other fellas - when in FACT it is about all of us.

sorry mate, absolute first class bs. Abo kids will almost never be removed despite clear evidence of abuse and neglect. You couldnt be more naive.

You're wrong,of course. Again. No surprises. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children are statistically over-represented in child removal. It is policy however to place children removed with other Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islanders where possible.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children living in out-of-home care

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children are over-represented in the Australian out-of-home care system. In 2012-13, approximately 34% (n = 13,952) of all children in out-of-home care were identified as Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander. Overall, rates of out-of-home care for both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children and non-Indigenous children have continued to increase between 2009 and 2013 (AIHW, 2014).2 The number of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children placed in out-of-home care rose from 44.8/1,000 children in 2009-10 to 57.1/1,000 children 2012-13 (AIHW, 2014). Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children were 10.6 times more likely than non-Indigenous children to be in out-of-home care nationally with rate ratios ranging from 3.9 in Tasmania to 16.1 in Western Australia.

In all jurisdictions there were higher rates of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in care than non-Indigenous children.

https://www3.aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/child-protection-and-aboriginal-and-t...

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Phemanderac

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #188 - May 13^th, 2015 at 3:55pm

rhino wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 9:47pm:

Phemanderac wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 9:20pm:

rhino wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 3:59pm:

Phemanderac wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 6:53am:

[
The major victims by the way are not ADULTS who, presumably, should know better and certainly should do better, the really major victims are children...

This gets lost consistently in all the competitive angst disguised as a debate.

And no, this doesnt get lost on my at all. Do you think the fact that white kids are much more likely to be removed from families where they are being abused than abo kids helps them any? Why dont we keep pretending theres no issue with these people.

Sigh, the fact is, kids being abused, neglected (witnessing DV does fall under abuse and neglect) will be removed if;

a) The matter is reported and the FACT the kids witnessed it is also reported - that will mean a mandatory report to the appropriate state child protection authority.

b) The issue scores high enough on the ROSH scale.... (ROSH = Risk of Serious Harm).

Now a couple of things to consider there are;

The ages of the children - the older they are the less likely removal is.

Aboriginal children are removed, albeit, a bit more reluctantly due to Stolen Generation issues - yep a fact. However, age is a factor still.

Now personally, with regard to child protection, I would posit that it is underfunded and consequently under resources. As such, not ALL children at risk get removed, despite numerous reports.... A sad reality.

Oh, and child protection workers are also just people too, as such, sometimes errors of judgement occur. Sadly, this can also cost kids their lives, happiness or fail to protect their well being.

And try to remember, in all of this, whether it be due to DV or other issues of child abuse, neglect or failure to provide protection - it began with the parents more often than not.

So, resolve or at least reduce the occurrences of DV and a big child protection issue is also resolved.

Not sure who is pretending there is no issue with "these people" clearly they are people, so there are issues. Why do we spend so much energy denying our own issues I wonder?

Finally, that comment was not aimed solely at you, in fact it is clearly articulated. All the angst ridden (and I will add, finger pointing) people claim as "debate" blatantly ignores discussing child safety or well being concerns.

This thread is no different, given in all the pages so far, it had not come up til I pointed it out.

So, I am please it is not lost on you, however, your response clearly demonstrates the opinion that it is mostly about them other fellas - when in FACT it is about all of us.

sorry mate, absolute first class bs. Abo kids will almost never be removed despite clear evidence of abuse and neglect. You couldnt be more naive.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I always support people having an opinion...

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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #189 - May 14^th, 2015 at 12:12am

Lisa Jones wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 5:07pm:

You know what?

It's nice to see a FEW males contribute.

Most seem to be staying away.

Just an observation.....

I think Lisa is trying to tell us if we behave more coquettishly, as she does, we may attract more male contributors.

Maybe we could talk about washing some more?

As it stands, i see 3 women posting and 3 men. Clearly not a good enough ratio for Lisa.

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rhino

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #190 - May 14^th, 2015 at 12:20am

mothra wrote on May 13^th, 2015 at 3:22pm:

rhino wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 9:47pm:

Phemanderac wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 9:20pm:

rhino wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 3:59pm:

Phemanderac wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 6:53am:

[
The major victims by the way are not ADULTS who, presumably, should know better and certainly should do better, the really major victims are children...

This gets lost consistently in all the competitive angst disguised as a debate.

And no, this doesnt get lost on my at all. Do you think the fact that white kids are much more likely to be removed from families where they are being abused than abo kids helps them any? Why dont we keep pretending theres no issue with these people.

Sigh, the fact is, kids being abused, neglected (witnessing DV does fall under abuse and neglect) will be removed if;

a) The matter is reported and the FACT the kids witnessed it is also reported - that will mean a mandatory report to the appropriate state child protection authority.

b) The issue scores high enough on the ROSH scale.... (ROSH = Risk of Serious Harm).

Now a couple of things to consider there are;

The ages of the children - the older they are the less likely removal is.

Aboriginal children are removed, albeit, a bit more reluctantly due to Stolen Generation issues - yep a fact. However, age is a factor still.

Now personally, with regard to child protection, I would posit that it is underfunded and consequently under resources. As such, not ALL children at risk get removed, despite numerous reports.... A sad reality.

Oh, and child protection workers are also just people too, as such, sometimes errors of judgement occur. Sadly, this can also cost kids their lives, happiness or fail to protect their well being.

And try to remember, in all of this, whether it be due to DV or other issues of child abuse, neglect or failure to provide protection - it began with the parents more often than not.

So, resolve or at least reduce the occurrences of DV and a big child protection issue is also resolved.

Not sure who is pretending there is no issue with "these people" clearly they are people, so there are issues. Why do we spend so much energy denying our own issues I wonder?

Finally, that comment was not aimed solely at you, in fact it is clearly articulated. All the angst ridden (and I will add, finger pointing) people claim as "debate" blatantly ignores discussing child safety or well being concerns.

This thread is no different, given in all the pages so far, it had not come up til I pointed it out.

So, I am please it is not lost on you, however, your response clearly demonstrates the opinion that it is mostly about them other fellas - when in FACT it is about all of us.

sorry mate, absolute first class bs. Abo kids will almost never be removed despite clear evidence of abuse and neglect. You couldnt be more naive.

You're wrong,of course. Again. No surprises. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children are statistically over-represented in child removal. It is policy however to place children removed with other Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islanders where possible.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children living in out-of-home care

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children are over-represented in the Australian out-of-home care system. In 2012-13, approximately 34% (n = 13,952) of all children in out-of-home care were identified as Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander. Overall, rates of out-of-home care for both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children and non-Indigenous children have continued to increase between 2009 and 2013 (AIHW, 2014).2 The number of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children placed in out-of-home care rose from 44.8/1,000 children in 2009-10 to 57.1/1,000 children 2012-13 (AIHW, 2014). Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children were 10.6 times more likely than non-Indigenous children to be in out-of-home care nationally with rate ratios ranging from 3.9 in Tasmania to 16.1 in Western Australia.

In all jurisdictions there were higher rates of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in care than non-Indigenous children.

https://www3.aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/child-protection-and-aboriginal-and-t...

Only problem is, that doesnt prove me wrong. it proves me right. Aboriginals are hugely over represented in child abuse and domestic abuse statistics. And just because there are a lot more abo kids in care does not mean they are more likely or even as likely to be taken into care. You can walk into communities in the north where all the kids are in abusive circumstances.

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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35146 Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #191 - May 14^th, 2015 at 12:30am No, it proves you wrong. You said: "sorry mate, absolute first class bs. Abo kids will almost never be removed despite clear evidence of abuse and neglect. You couldnt be more naive." That is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Turns out it was you who was naive doesn't it?
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Emma

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #192 - May 14^th, 2015 at 12:43am

Your post was well worth reading Mothra.
Thank you.
The information you provided is truly startling and should result in some serious heart-searching for all of us. Sad

As for Lisa? well I suspect she is an imposter, however she seems to be very popular with the men on this forum.
She/he tells them what they just looove to hear.! Grin

I even checked out the 'most popular poster' thread a week or so ago, .. and guess who everyone likes??

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #193 - May 14^th, 2015 at 12:45am and it aain't me...
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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #194 - May 14^th, 2015 at 12:48am

Back to the point at hand .. what do we collectively think are good strategies for dealing with family violence?

To my mind, it starts with education. We need to teach children in school what family violence is and what it means. That it is a crime and there are penalties. We need to provide children with more counsellors. I think children need to be modeled non-violent behaviour and that starts with parents finding better ways to discipline their children than smacking them. Use the giant brain we all have. Problem resolution through thought and action.

I think there need to be more support services that focus on early intervention and child support. When i eventually threw my abusive ex out, there was nowhere to take my kids. I eventually found help for my daughter through a women's support centre as she was a little older but my very young son had nothing.

We need to remove the stigma on family violence sufferers. Too many people still equate being on the receiving end of family violence with weakness, or naivety, or lack of will. This holds especially true for male sufferers. We need more education programs defining family violence as something we could all go through and there but for the grace of god go i ... and all that.

THere were excellent advertising campaigns run last year on family violence. They received some backlash because they did not include men or same sex unions in their message. We need to repeat them and include those missing into the message.

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