Australian Politics Forum - Womens Biggest Issues Are ...

Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #420 - May 26^th, 2015 at 3:45am Yes Ok we have one male. And I respect his posts. Only............. did PH always identify himself as male? I am unsure. And, when there is a change to the gender , the system on this forum changes all prior postings to reflect the new info. Aye, well .. but it is getting late, and I should go snooze. Respect.
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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #421 - May 26^th, 2015 at 3:47am goodnight
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #422 - May 26^th, 2015 at 4:15am

Phemanderac wrote on May 25^th, 2015 at 8:33am:

"oppressor/oppressed paradigm"

That just seems to be a different way of saying there is a power imbalance - which would seem also to be the underpinning point of ANY struggle/conflict.

Isn't it all just about power and control. Adding genders into this is merely a distraction from the real power and control issues I would think.

It still comes down to a discussion about freedom, one which is lost/wasted by dumbing it all down to him vs her (or her vs him if you like).

There are always power imbalances. There is nothing inherently wrong with this. The problem is that feminists like to talk about equality, which automatically insinuates that any power imbalance is unjust. But, the term 'power imbalance' is merely a description. It is not a refutation, nor is it a value judgement. The problem is that the preachers of equality have infused the terms 'equality' and 'power imbalance' with their own values and prejudices.

Has there ever been a time where equality has existed? If anyone knows, then please inform me. What would an equal society look like? How would it be brought about?

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #423 - May 26^th, 2015 at 4:20am

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 1:10am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 25^th, 2015 at 7:03am:

Emma wrote on May 24^th, 2015 at 9:34pm:

maybe you should understand Patriarchy.
Maybe you should understand women.

Get informed, rather than emotive, you poor creature. Left to the ministrations of the evil female, out to get you.!!!
Cheesy

Can't you look up the definition?. No? Not interested? So go away and spread your baseless views somewhere they are welcome.

Seems to me if you watch the News, of any sort, you'd now be aware of the state of this matter of DV and oppression by male on female. Of how wide-spread it is, and how pervasive is the current dominant culture. Do you mean you haven't heard about this? ?

Do you even watch the News, or 'umm '

actually READ ?

Some MEN.. are starting to stand up for what is right. But the pollies are only really doing it, in the main, for our female votes. Why are there no real women in Abbotts govt.?

There are many other more genuine informed commentators of the male persuasion. And you know what CW and the rest?? these MEN think you are lower than cockroaches. They are real men. Not afraid of losing their historical right to rule the roost.
Good on them, they are much more aware than the puny likes of you and your weak kind.
Feel good only when you can be putting someone else down, do you. ?. Eh?

The answer would be YES. Wouldn't it.?

Pathetic.

Keep on showing us just how ignorant selfish puerile and bigoted you really are. !

Mothra, how do you debate someone like this? Does Emma Peel appear remotely interested in discussing or correcting the issues raised?

What is the starting point of your argument?

It seems to me that you are coming in with an agenda and asking those who receive your posts to have none.

How do you debate Emma? Point by point. Try not to dehumanise her. Listen to what she says and try to factor in that she may be defensive because it is reasonably expected that she be defensive. Given what is said.

Emma has taken issue with me so you'll have to ask her what her starting point is. I am not going to go through that post point by point because it's full of vitriol. But, let me guess, I deserved it, right?

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #424 - May 26^th, 2015 at 4:32am

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 1:23am:

"You're still using an oppressor/oppressed paradigm, by setting up patriarchy as the oppressor and feminism as the oppressed. Hence my original claim has not been refuted. "

Oh come on. What are you looking for? A feminist to say there is no power imbalance?

Listen. I shall try to make it simple.

T Here is a status quo that expects certain things from men and certain things from women. Agreed?

Men and women have different expectations.

Now think. What are those expectations?

Do you think that women announced that men get all the work opportunities if they sacrifice themselves to a 40 hour week?

Do you think women organised it so men have control of the family budget?

Do you think women created the wage gap?

Do you think women created the paradigm where men have to work themselves into an early grave and only see their kids on weekends?

Do you think women orchestrated it so only women have responsibility fo children and a man "missing out" is because of the 'femonazis'?

Do you think women created the situation in which men who are being abused find it difficult for anyone to take them seriously?

Listen mate. Men have had disproportionate power for too long. They've made a mess of things. They have made it as difficult for men as it is for women.

This is the patriarchy. Behold it in all of it's splendour.

Women, through feminism, have caused the ripples. Men are free to join in. We have been fighting for them all along. It's about time we got some recognition for it.

As I stated to Phemanderac, you're insinuating that power imbalances are a bad thing. There is always a power imbalance in all situations. This doesn't mean that those who have less power are oppressed. Additionally, some people have more power for a reason. Those who have more skills and knowledge usually take on more responsibility.

Those issues you mentioned, that's even if they are issues, can easily be solved by the parties involved. If we were having this conversation 100 or more years ago, you'd probably have a point, but since the 1960s there's been equality of opportunity (perhaps not with child custody though). If women now don't want to be under the yolk of a man, then don't. There's no law claiming women must do what men tell them. Hence, there's no societal structural problem.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #425 - May 26^th, 2015 at 4:34am

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 1:35am:

It's really hard to explain to people who have felt no fear what fear is.

It is not about being unwilling ... it is about what you know is a reasonable variable.

For many women, just simple walking around the neighbourhood is frightening.

It is not these women's fault that that is the case. They are not being paranoid. They are being attentive.

Which neighbourhood are you talking about?

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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #426 - May 26^th, 2015 at 8:37am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 4:32am:

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 1:23am:

"You're still using an oppressor/oppressed paradigm, by setting up patriarchy as the oppressor and feminism as the oppressed. Hence my original claim has not been refuted. "

Oh come on. What are you looking for? A feminist to say there is no power imbalance?

Listen. I shall try to make it simple.

T Here is a status quo that expects certain things from men and certain things from women. Agreed?

Men and women have different expectations.

Now think. What are those expectations?

Do you think that women announced that men get all the work opportunities if they sacrifice themselves to a 40 hour week?

Do you think women organised it so men have control of the family budget?

Do you think women created the wage gap?

Do you think women created the paradigm where men have to work themselves into an early grave and only see their kids on weekends?

Do you think women orchestrated it so only women have responsibility fo children and a man "missing out" is because of the 'femonazis'?

Do you think women created the situation in which men who are being abused find it difficult for anyone to take them seriously?

Listen mate. Men have had disproportionate power for too long. They've made a mess of things. They have made it as difficult for men as it is for women.

This is the patriarchy. Behold it in all of it's splendour.

Women, through feminism, have caused the ripples. Men are free to join in. We have been fighting for them all along. It's about time we got some recognition for it.

As I stated to Phemanderac, you're insinuating that power imbalances are a bad thing. There is always a power imbalance in all situations. This doesn't mean that those who have less power are oppressed. Additionally, some people have more power for a reason. Those who have more skills and knowledge usually take on more responsibility.

Those issues you mentioned, that's even if they are issues, can easily be solved by the parties involved. If we were having this conversation 100 or more years ago, you'd probably have a point, but since the 1960s there's been equality of opportunity (perhaps not with child custody though). If women now don't want to be under the yolk of a man, then don't. There's no law claiming women must do what men tell them. Hence, there's no societal structural problem.

Ahhh i see. You are an idiot.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #427 - May 26^th, 2015 at 9:03am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 4:34am:

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 1:35am:

It's really hard to explain to people who have felt no fear what fear is.

It is not about being unwilling ... it is about what you know is a reasonable variable.

For many women, just simple walking around the neighbourhood is frightening.

It is not these women's fault that that is the case. They are not being paranoid. They are being attentive.

Which neighbourhood are you talking about?

Pick one.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #428 - May 26^th, 2015 at 1:48pm

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 2:08am:

Emma wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 2:03am:

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 1:45am:

As i tried to explain to Culture Warrior, this does not mean all men are anything at all ... but the power paradigm accepts and[

b] accepts only that men are in the pole position.

This is the patriarchy. It negatively effects men and women.

[/b]Men are supposed to succeed at any cost and women are supposed to pick up the leavings.

Too much pressure on men ... too little allowance for women.

A failed system.

Time for a reboot.

All you have to do is look at Government to realise that you are saying truth Mothra.

Seems strange doesn't it? that any G8 or G20 or any other gathering of world leaders you could suggest , has maybe 1 woman ?
Does that tell us anything.?

IT tells us that half of the voices are being unrepresented.

Try looking down for a change - yes men are at the top, but beneath your feet are 100x more men, with women comfortably in the middle. Never having to get their hands dirty, because lesser men are doing that. While they're dying in the dirt underneath you, you're looking up at the stars, saying "gee look how easy those men have it."

If I could live a relatively comfortable existence, without much effort, by standing on the shoulders of plebs, I'd consider myself very lucky indeed. Instead of staring upwards at the 1% and thinking that's representative, why not look all around you, and see where you fit in to the whole. Women have never been the ones breaking their backs and working themselves into an early grave, but they sure do enjoy the fruits of that labour. But rather than see the big picture, all they can do is cry "I WANT MORE!". And if recent history has taught us anything, it's that they will keep wanting more no matter how much they are given.

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #429 - May 26^th, 2015 at 1:54pm Consideration of the bigger picture is a foreign concept to women, who can only ever see as far as themselves:
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Phemanderac

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #430 - May 26^th, 2015 at 6:34pm

Firstly, I am fairly sure I have always identified as male (at least in RL I have always certainly done so). That said, I cannot gaurantee that I "ticked a box" when I first joined the forum - however, at some point I must have done so.

As to the "power imbalance" stuff.

Yep, there has always been power imbalances, in fact, that is or at least appears to be part of nature as well. However, we humans have added in a new dimension that, presumably (thanks to our somewhat unique frontal cortex) we can quite deliberately exploit, abuse or enhance said imbalance. Hence I made the clear point about "power and control" - this is a somewhat human condition whereby those with power exert (abuse/exploit) that perception of power to exercise control over other individuals.

To say this has always happened would certainly be correct, however, it would not be a defense of the position.

So, once again, we are back at the power imbalance aren't we. It is simply not a rigorous enough idea to say "this has always been so and, consequently, there is no real problem" which is what you have basically said CW in effect. Not a very critically thought out position.

That is further why I suggest the debate is actually about freedom and not one of equality. Yet, we cannot, and should not condone, justify, support or excuse any abuse of power imbalances that, by ongoing abuse, limits the freedoms of others.

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Emma

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #431 - May 26^th, 2015 at 9:58pm

Well said Phd. You put it quite reasonably and succinctly.

Really, Womens Biggest Issues are just like everyone elses when you get down to brass tacks. I just think opinions like those of CW are really offensive and should not go unchallenged. I will not be replying to any of them on this topic .

Their rhetoric is nothing but sophistry. No doubt they are just the same on any other topic where a woman expresses an opinion for themselves.

They are beneath me, and I refuse their attempts at manipulation.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #432 - May 27^th, 2015 at 5:24am

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 8:37am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 4:32am:

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 1:23am:

"You're still using an oppressor/oppressed paradigm, by setting up patriarchy as the oppressor and feminism as the oppressed. Hence my original claim has not been refuted. "

Oh come on. What are you looking for? A feminist to say there is no power imbalance?

Listen. I shall try to make it simple.

T Here is a status quo that expects certain things from men and certain things from women. Agreed?

Men and women have different expectations.

Now think. What are those expectations?

Do you think that women announced that men get all the work opportunities if they sacrifice themselves to a 40 hour week?

Do you think women organised it so men have control of the family budget?

Do you think women created the wage gap?

Do you think women created the paradigm where men have to work themselves into an early grave and only see their kids on weekends?

Do you think women orchestrated it so only women have responsibility fo children and a man "missing out" is because of the 'femonazis'?

Do you think women created the situation in which men who are being abused find it difficult for anyone to take them seriously?

Listen mate. Men have had disproportionate power for too long. They've made a mess of things. They have made it as difficult for men as it is for women.

This is the patriarchy. Behold it in all of it's splendour.

Women, through feminism, have caused the ripples. Men are free to join in. We have been fighting for them all along. It's about time we got some recognition for it.

As I stated to Phemanderac, you're insinuating that power imbalances are a bad thing. There is always a power imbalance in all situations. This doesn't mean that those who have less power are oppressed. Additionally, some people have more power for a reason. Those who have more skills and knowledge usually take on more responsibility.

Those issues you mentioned, that's even if they are issues, can easily be solved by the parties involved. If we were having this conversation 100 or more years ago, you'd probably have a point, but since the 1960s there's been equality of opportunity (perhaps not with child custody though). If women now don't want to be under the yolk of a man, then don't. There's no law claiming women must do what men tell them. Hence, there's no societal structural problem.

Ahhh i see. You are an idiot.

It was only a matter of time before you resorted to abuse. It's the feminist way.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #433 - May 27^th, 2015 at 5:26am

Emma wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 9:58pm:

Well said Phd. You put it quite reasonably and succinctly.

Really, Womens Biggest Issues are just like everyone elses when you get down to brass tacks. I just think opinions like those of CW are really offensive and should not go unchallenged. I will not be replying to any of them on this topic .

Their rhetoric is nothing but sophistry. No doubt they are just the same on any other topic where a woman expresses an opinion for themselves.

They are beneath me, and I refuse their attempts at manipulation.

What part, or parts, of my posts were offensive, rhetoric and sophistry?

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #434 - May 27^th, 2015 at 2:22pm

Emma wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 9:58pm:

tacks. I just think opinions like those of CW are really offensive and should not go unchallenged. I will not be replying to any of them on this topic .

LOL. They shouldn't go unchallenged....but you won't challenge them, you'll wait for someone else to.

That too, is the feminist way.

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