Australian Politics Forum - Womens Biggest Issues Are ...

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #435 - May 27^th, 2015 at 4:45pm Apologies for interjecting... Just wanted to say that effective communication is a big issue for many of us women ie verbal/non verbal....active listening etc A professional/personal relationship with these elements can go the distance.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #436 - May 27^th, 2015 at 4:47pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 5:24am:

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 8:37am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 4:32am:

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 1:23am:

"You're still using an oppressor/oppressed paradigm, by setting up patriarchy as the oppressor and feminism as the oppressed. Hence my original claim has not been refuted. "

Oh come on. What are you looking for? A feminist to say there is no power imbalance?

Listen. I shall try to make it simple.

T Here is a status quo that expects certain things from men and certain things from women. Agreed?

Men and women have different expectations.

Now think. What are those expectations?

Do you think that women announced that men get all the work opportunities if they sacrifice themselves to a 40 hour week?

Do you think women organised it so men have control of the family budget?

Do you think women created the wage gap?

Do you think women created the paradigm where men have to work themselves into an early grave and only see their kids on weekends?

Do you think women orchestrated it so only women have responsibility fo children and a man "missing out" is because of the 'femonazis'?

Do you think women created the situation in which men who are being abused find it difficult for anyone to take them seriously?

Listen mate. Men have had disproportionate power for too long. They've made a mess of things. They have made it as difficult for men as it is for women.

This is the patriarchy. Behold it in all of it's splendour.

Women, through feminism, have caused the ripples. Men are free to join in. We have been fighting for them all along. It's about time we got some recognition for it.

As I stated to Phemanderac, you're insinuating that power imbalances are a bad thing. There is always a power imbalance in all situations. This doesn't mean that those who have less power are oppressed. Additionally, some people have more power for a reason. Those who have more skills and knowledge usually take on more responsibility.

Those issues you mentioned, that's even if they are issues, can easily be solved by the parties involved. If we were having this conversation 100 or more years ago, you'd probably have a point, but since the 1960s there's been equality of opportunity (perhaps not with child custody though). If women now don't want to be under the yolk of a man, then don't. There's no law claiming women must do what men tell them. Hence, there's no societal structural problem.

Ahhh i see. You are an idiot.

It was only a matter of time before you resorted to abuse. It's the feminist way.

If she abuses you, then it is called self defense.

Keep up will ya Roll Eyes

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Agnes

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #437 - May 27^th, 2015 at 4:55pm

Lisa Jones wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 4:47pm:

If she abuses you, then it is called self defense.

Keep up will ya Roll Eyes

"
Is there a reason you hate most other women Lisa - what is it about other women that you hate?

Mothra is entirely right btw way- is it within your mental grasp to ever make an intelligent comment on the topic and post alongside other women normally- or is all you want to do just to troll and attack other women all the time in every thread , just because they are women? Cool

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« Last Edit: May 27^th, 2015 at 5:10pm by Agnes »

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #438 - May 27^th, 2015 at 5:09pm

Lisa Jones wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 4:47pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 5:24am:

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 8:37am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 4:32am:

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 1:23am:

"You're still using an oppressor/oppressed paradigm, by setting up patriarchy as the oppressor and feminism as the oppressed. Hence my original claim has not been refuted. "

Oh come on. What are you looking for? A feminist to say there is no power imbalance?

Listen. I shall try to make it simple.

T Here is a status quo that expects certain things from men and certain things from women. Agreed?

Men and women have different expectations.

Now think. What are those expectations?

Do you think that women announced that men get all the work opportunities if they sacrifice themselves to a 40 hour week?

Do you think women organised it so men have control of the family budget?

Do you think women created the wage gap?

Do you think women created the paradigm where men have to work themselves into an early grave and only see their kids on weekends?

Do you think women orchestrated it so only women have responsibility fo children and a man "missing out" is because of the 'femonazis'?

Do you think women created the situation in which men who are being abused find it difficult for anyone to take them seriously?

Listen mate. Men have had disproportionate power for too long. They've made a mess of things. They have made it as difficult for men as it is for women.

This is the patriarchy. Behold it in all of it's splendour.

Women, through feminism, have caused the ripples. Men are free to join in. We have been fighting for them all along. It's about time we got some recognition for it.

As I stated to Phemanderac, you're insinuating that power imbalances are a bad thing. There is always a power imbalance in all situations. This doesn't mean that those who have less power are oppressed. Additionally, some people have more power for a reason. Those who have more skills and knowledge usually take on more responsibility.

Those issues you mentioned, that's even if they are issues, can easily be solved by the parties involved. If we were having this conversation 100 or more years ago, you'd probably have a point, but since the 1960s there's been equality of opportunity (perhaps not with child custody though). If women now don't want to be under the yolk of a man, then don't. There's no law claiming women must do what men tell them. Hence, there's no societal structural problem.

Ahhh i see. You are an idiot.

It was only a matter of time before you resorted to abuse. It's the feminist way.

If she abuses you, then it is called self defense.

Keep up will ya Roll Eyes

Oh and if you call her on it..then it is YOU who is being abusive.

She's been like that for decades...meh you get used to it after a while.

Good luck. You're gonna need it. Wink

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #439 - May 27^th, 2015 at 5:11pm

MEmma wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 9:58pm:

Well said Phd. You put it quite reasonably and succinctly.

Really, Womens Biggest Issues are just like everyone elses when you get down to brass tacks. I just think opinions like those of CW are really offensive and should not go unchallenged. I will not be replying to any of them on this topic .

Their rhetoric is nothing but sophistry. No doubt they are just the same on any other topic where a woman expresses an opinion for themselves.

They are beneath me, and I refuse their attempts at manipulation.

Good for you!

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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #440 - May 27^th, 2015 at 6:12pm

Phemanderac wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 6:34pm:

Firstly, I am fairly sure I have always identified as male (at least in RL I have always certainly done so). That said, I cannot gaurantee that I "ticked a box" when I first joined the forum - however, at some point I must have done so.

As to the "power imbalance" stuff.

Yep, there has always been power imbalances, in fact, that is or at least appears to be part of nature as well. However, we humans have added in a new dimension that, presumably (thanks to our somewhat unique frontal cortex) we can quite deliberately exploit, abuse or enhance said imbalance. Hence I made the clear point about "power and control" - this is a somewhat human condition whereby those with power exert (abuse/exploit) that perception of power to exercise control over other individuals.

To say this has always happened would certainly be correct, however, it would not be a defense of the position.

So, once again, we are back at the power imbalance aren't we. It is simply not a rigorous enough idea to say "this has always been so and, consequently, there is no real problem" which is what you have basically said CW in effect. Not a very critically thought out position.

That is further why I suggest the debate is actually about freedom and not one of equality. Yet, we cannot, and should not condone, justify, support or excuse any abuse of power imbalances that, by ongoing abuse, limits the freedoms of others.

Exactly that. But freedom can only come when people are treated equally.

I find it interesting that i am called abusive for calling someone an idiot (who was clearly being one). I see much worse on this forum that goes uncalled but when a woman says it, it takes on a whole new definition. Culture Warrior was far more unpleasant to Emma than i was to him ... and he obviously gave no consideration at all to anything i said. I call him on it and we immediately have 3 posters jump in .. two declaring that it is "the feminist way" .. the other with her own bizarre axe to grind.

There cannot be freedom whilst some people are treated differently by virtue of something they have no control over. This holds true for race and age and all sorts of other human conditions.

Culture Warrior's refusal to consider the existence of the patriarchy as a defining force in our society speaks volumes for those who are content to hold the balance of power. They refuse to treat me equally, and deride me for it.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #441 - May 27^th, 2015 at 6:22pm

Agnes wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 4:55pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 4:47pm:

If she abuses you, then it is called self defense.

Keep up will ya Roll Eyes

"
Is there a reason you hate most other women Lisa - what is it about other women that you hate?

Mothra is entirely right btw way- is it within your mental grasp to ever make an intelligent comment on the topic and post alongside other women normally- or is all you want to do just to troll and attack other women all the time in every thread , just because they are women? Cool

She's pretty funny isn't she?

What's the bet we see Culture Warrior and Honky listed as her new "Favourite posters" like every other man who either spoke to her or said something confrontational to one of her enemies.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #442 - May 27^th, 2015 at 7:05pm Excuses, deflections and rescripting events. It gets a tad boring....after a decade.
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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #443 - May 27^th, 2015 at 7:20pm

Lisa Jones wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 7:05pm:

Excuses, deflections and rescripting events.

It gets a tad boring....after a decade. Roll Eyes

No, that would be you. You're famous for it. Or should that be infamous.

But anyway, at least my children have aged in that time (including who has arrived over that time).

Why have your twins been 18 for seven years?

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Emma

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #444 - May 27^th, 2015 at 8:14pm

mothra wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 7:20pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 7:05pm:

Excuses, deflections and rescripting events.

It gets a tad boring....after a decade. Roll Eyes

No, that would be you. You're famous for it. Or should that be infamous.

But anyway, at least my children have aged in that time (including who has arrived over that time).

Why have your twins been 18 for seven years?

Jiust accept that lisa J is a bloke, a joke and why do you bother about this rubbish ? Someone claimed that Lisa J is actually a woman. I don't believe that for a second. Although it may be one of those psychos we read about from time to time. Grin

. I'll reply to whom I choose, and that should say heaps really. Roll Eyes

What's that? Oh I prefer to talk with women. Oh and other reasonable posters like Phd for example.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #445 - May 28^th, 2015 at 5:17pm

mothra wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 6:12pm:

Exactly that. But freedom can only come when people are treated equally.

I fail to see how equality and freedom coincide. Equality, if it ever existed anywhere, would have to be forced. That doesn't sound like freedom to me.

Quote:

I find it interesting that i am called abusive for calling someone an idiot (who was clearly being one).

Idiot is a term of abuse, is it not? You didn't engage with the points I made; instead, you retorted with abuse.

I was right in my first post: feminists need to distinguish between disagreement and abuse.

Quote:

Culture Warrior's refusal to consider the existence of the patriarchy as a defining force in our society speaks volumes for those who are content to hold the balance of power. They refuse to treat me equally, and deride me for it.

You use the term 'patriarchy' as if it some magical force that does a jedi mind trick on everyone. As I stated before, those in power are usually there for a reason: skilled, knowledgeable, wealthy, intelligent, outgoing, extroverted, courageous, confident.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #446 - May 28^th, 2015 at 5:19pm

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 9:03am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 4:34am:

mothra wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 1:35am:

It's really hard to explain to people who have felt no fear what fear is.

It is not about being unwilling ... it is about what you know is a reasonable variable.

For many women, just simple walking around the neighbourhood is frightening.

It is not these women's fault that that is the case. They are not being paranoid. They are being attentive.

Which neighbourhood are you talking about?

Pick one.

You're telling the story.

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Agnes

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walk a mile
Reply #447 - May 28^th, 2015 at 5:42pm

CW- I guess you have to live the life of a woman and vice versa before you could adequately appreciate her pov. Most things Mothra is saying most women agree with- there one or two here that deliberately run with their own agenda and troll a topic such as this ( because she looking for a new man Wink

and she will say anything even hump their leg is she thinks she will make a new contact- Cool

)That type of woman is trolling and not interested in the topic. Just herself- So try to appreciate that although you don't understand how women live in the world her fears and her world view- then that is not a fail- just venus and mars- sorry. I don't pretend to understand everything about males- that would be boring anyway. I like a bit of mystery.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #448 - May 28^th, 2015 at 5:47pm

Emma wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 8:14pm:

mothra wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 7:20pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on May 27^th, 2015 at 7:05pm:

Excuses, deflections and rescripting events.

It gets a tad boring....after a decade. Roll Eyes

No, that would be you. You're famous for it. Or should that be infamous.

But anyway, at least my children have aged in that time (including who has arrived over that time).

Why have your twins been 18 for seven years?

Jiust accept that lisa J is a bloke, a joke and why do you bother about this rubbish ? Someone claimed that Lisa J is actually a woman.

I'm a bloke?

My husband begs to differ.

So do the stretch marks and the Caesarean scars on my tummy.

Grin

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Agnes

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Re: walk a mile
Reply #449 - May 28^th, 2015 at 5:51pm

Agnes wrote on May 28^th, 2015 at 5:42pm:

CW- I guess you have to live the life of a woman and vice versa before you could adequately appreciate her pov. Most things Mothra is saying most women agree with- there one or two here that deliberately run with their own agenda and troll a topic such as this ( because she looking for a new man Wink

and she will say anything even hump their leg is she thinks she will make a new contact- Cool

)That type of woman is trolling and not interested in the topic. Just herself- So try to appreciate that although you don't understand how women live in the world her fears and her world view- then that is not a fail- just venus and mars- sorry. I don't pretend to understand everything about males- that would be boring anyway. I like a bit of mystery.

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