Australian Politics Forum - Womens Biggest Issues Are ...

Lisa Jones

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #525 - Jun 4^th, 2015 at 7:43pm

Phemanderac wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 4:07pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 3:43pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 3:35pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 2:33pm:

Phem....just so you know, it is very hard to think of you as anything but a female.

Lisa, just so you know.... Comments like that make it hard to think of you as anything but an imbecile.

Yep. A female.

1000000%

Yep. An imbecile.

1000000%

For Christ's sake, stop your nonsense Phemandera.

Better still, just start over with a new female nic next time.

You're just being silly now.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #526 - Jun 4^th, 2015 at 7:45pm ... wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 5:50pm: And on a related note, the notion of "boys clubs" colluding to keep women down is a joke. Men are much, much harder on other men than they are on women. It probably isn't as prevalent as it once was.
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Phemanderac

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #527 - Jun 4^th, 2015 at 8:05pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 7:43pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 4:07pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 3:43pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 3:35pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 2:33pm:

Phem....just so you know, it is very hard to think of you as anything but a female.

Lisa, just so you know.... Comments like that make it hard to think of you as anything but an imbecile.

Yep. A female.

1000000%

Yep. An imbecile.

1000000%

For Christ's sake, stop your nonsense Phemandera.

Better still, just start over with a new female nic next time.

You're just being silly now.

For Christ's sake, stop your nonsense Lisa.

Better still, just start over with a new IQ next time.

You're just silly.

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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Soren

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #528 - Jun 4^th, 2015 at 9:36pm

... wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 4:05pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 3:57pm:

mothra wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 1:02am:

I think that same sex marriage and the fuss being made over Bruce Jenner becoming Caitlyn Jenner advance the cause of equality.

http://blogs.news.com.au/images/uploads/billjen_thumb.png

Since you're in the mental health business (I think), what is your take on this guy, and "transgenderism" in general?

I think they're just crazy people, and indulging their delusions is not helpful to anybody.

It is a life style disease.

Being sexually attracted to the same sex is one thing- it is a psychological state. Being 'gay' is a completely different category, it is about a 'lifestyle', and more broadly about a cultural space. Ancient Greeks were not 'gay' (not even 'homosexual' for that matter). Gay is political category. Homosexuality is a psychological one. Homosexuality is of 19th century way of (medicalised) thinking, 'gay' is a 1950s invention.

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Emma

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #529 - Jun 4^th, 2015 at 11:19pm

Phemanderac wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 1:41pm:

So then it would seem that this debate is not in point of fact then one of Women's biggest issues.

Further, it would seem that it is not about feminism either, it is about humanism....

Treating all people fairly and facilitating them realizing their individual strengths and contribution to society regardless of gender, race, religion or socio-economic situation....

I don't think all people are, in fact, born equal - that's just how things go, we have genetic differences, we have environmental differences, we have developmental differences and then we have gender differences as well.
..............blah blah blah

So, yep, we do need to make some BIG changes to how we have been doing life. Hopefully, as a species we will one day stumble out of our adolescent and self centred fog and start stepping up to;

a) Take a bit of personal responsibility en masse (it's hard work on those few individuals who already do after all)

b) Learn to be respectful of what other people can do, achieve and provide. You know, rather than just discriminate against them because they are the wrong colour, religion, gender, the wrong hair colour, not wealthy enough.... The list goes on.

Blah Blah Blah............

Back to the point - perhaps, we need to really try to avoid any and all isms -

and learn a bit about appropriate discrimination

.

Good grief! as Mothra would say. Appropriate discrimination.???
And I'm sure you could supply suggestions. Roll Eyes

You are seriously SAD Phd.

You say that it is beyond us as humans to rationally consider any or all things on the basis of equality and treat people equitably. It is beyond us in 2015.
You are saying we are still animals.

You may be correct, in some instances. Sad

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« Last Edit: Jun 5^th, 2015 at 10:27pm by Emma »

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Phemanderac

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #530 - Jun 5^th, 2015 at 8:36am

Emma wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 11:19pm:

Good grief! as Mothra would say. Appropriate discrimination.???
And I'm sure you could supply suggestions. Roll Eyes

You used discrimination when deciding what to Quote and what to replace with bla bla bla....

Was that appropriate? After all, it was discrimination....

How do we decide if we do not discriminate at some level?

I think the real issue is how we learn to agree on what is actually appropriate.

Emma wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 11:19pm:

You are seriously delusional Phd.

Really? Thanks for your analysis and I am sure that has furthered the debate no end.

Emma wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 11:19pm:

You say that it is beyond us as humans to rationally consider any or all things on the basis of equality and treat people equitably. It is beyond us in 2015.

You ask me that, given the pages of debate on that very issue?

Tell me, are you suggesting the "job's done"?

Oh, and by the way, no where did I say we are incapable of considering things equitably, however, what I would say to that comment that I did not make is that we are too lazy generally to try...

Emma wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 11:19pm:

You are saying we are still animals.

Are you suggesting that we are not? Seriously?

Of course we are animals. At what point do you think we actually made some significant biological change to no longer be an animal?

Emma wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 11:19pm:

You may be correct, in some instances. Sad

There is the funny thing about the human animal, we can all be correct in some instances... I mean even a broken clock is correct at least twice a day...

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #531 - Jun 5^th, 2015 at 8:56am

Soren wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 9:36pm:

... wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 4:05pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 3:57pm:

mothra wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 1:02am:

I think that same sex marriage and the fuss being made over Bruce Jenner becoming Caitlyn Jenner advance the cause of equality.

http://blogs.news.com.au/images/uploads/billjen_thumb.png

Since you're in the mental health business (I think), what is your take on this guy, and "transgenderism" in general?

I think they're just crazy people, and indulging their delusions is not helpful to anybody.

It is a life style disease.

Being sexually attracted to the same sex is one thing- it is a psychological state. Being 'gay' is a completely different category, it is about a 'lifestyle', and more broadly about a cultural space. Ancient Greeks were not 'gay' (not even 'homosexual' for that matter). Gay is political category. Homosexuality is a psychological one. Homosexuality is of 19th century way of (medicalised) thinking, 'gay' is a 1950s invention.

About time you turned up.

Now stay here. We need more sane people in here lol

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Phemanderac

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #532 - Jun 5^th, 2015 at 9:08am

Soren wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 9:36pm:

... wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 4:05pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 3:57pm:

mothra wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 1:02am:

I think that same sex marriage and the fuss being made over Bruce Jenner becoming Caitlyn Jenner advance the cause of equality.

http://blogs.news.com.au/images/uploads/billjen_thumb.png

Since you're in the mental health business (I think), what is your take on this guy, and "transgenderism" in general?

I think they're just crazy people, and indulging their delusions is not helpful to anybody.

It is a life style disease.

Being sexually attracted to the same sex is one thing- it is a psychological state. Being 'gay' is a completely different category, it is about a 'lifestyle', and more broadly about a cultural space. Ancient Greeks were not 'gay' (not even 'homosexual' for that matter). Gay is political category. Homosexuality is a psychological one. Homosexuality is of 19th century way of (medicalised) thinking, 'gay' is a 1950s invention.

Garbage. That is your opinion, one not based on research, biology, psychiatry or psychology.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/faculty_sites/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.htm...

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #533 - Jun 5^th, 2015 at 9:26am That's about homosexuality, not "transgenderism". Apparently it's "completely different to sexual orientation". This Bruce Jenner reckons he's always been attracted only to females. Someone should tell him that most men are. He actually thinks he's a lesbian trapped in a mans body. Diagnosis: Nut.
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Agnes

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #534 - Jun 5^th, 2015 at 11:25am

... wrote on Jun 5^th, 2015 at 9:26am:

That's about homosexuality, not "transgenderism". Apparently it's "completely different to sexual orientation".

This Bruce Jenner reckons he's always been attracted only to females. Someone should tell him that most men are. He actually thinks he's a lesbian trapped in a mans body.

Diagnosis: Nut.

The Bruce Jenner thing is sad- but that's just my opinion- he is probably happy as a pig in sh it- I think it is possible to want to be a woman but then only sexually desire woman, as a man. Everyone to their own.

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...

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #535 - Jun 5^th, 2015 at 11:52am

Agnes wrote on Jun 5^th, 2015 at 11:25am:

he is probably happy as a pig in sh it

I strongly doubt it - "transgender" people have a suicide rate that is through the roof.

Advocates would blame this entirely on "prejudice" and "bigotry". I expect this plays some part - after all, people avoid the crazy man who thinks he's Jesus, so they'd also avoid the crazy man who thinks he's a woman. But avoiding the nutters is what sane people do - it is not a failing of society. These people need help, not to have their delusions reinforced.

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In the fullness of time...

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Agnes

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #536 - Jun 5^th, 2015 at 9:49pm

... wrote on Jun 5^th, 2015 at 11:52am:

Agnes wrote on Jun 5^th, 2015 at 11:25am:

he is probably happy as a pig in sh it

I strongly doubt it - "transgender" people have a suicide rate that is through the roof.

Advocates would blame this entirely on "prejudice" and "bigotry". I expect this plays some part - after all, people avoid the crazy man who thinks he's Jesus, so they'd also avoid the crazy man who thinks he's a woman. But avoiding the nutters is what sane people do - it is not a failing of society. These people need help, not to have their delusions reinforced.

Very dismissive Honky and I don't agree- just because someone wants to play outside the rules doesnt mean they are a nutcase.

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Emma

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #537 - Jun 5^th, 2015 at 10:25pm

I don't think 'transgenderism' is a particularly large women's issue.

Why are you talking about a man, who believes he is a woman, and took steps to become one.?

Hardly relevant is it?
Roll Eyes

No Phd , I AM re-writng your words into a more recognisable point. The Blah Blah's are just to spare us a verbose but essentially hollow and repetitive mantra. We've heard it all before.!

You manage to totally avoid the matter whilst seeming to reply.

Oh dear. So .. yes we are animals. But we have a rational brain, which should enable us to overcome the baser drives we possess and create an amazing world.

Instead all we do is fight each other.

Seeing others as your equal is something which only comes with 'enlightenment'.

Listen to the Dalai Lama. Try to understand the message.
Respect.

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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #538 - Jun 6^th, 2015 at 12:19am

Agnes wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 3:41pm:

If this thread is anything to go by the biggest issue women have is other women..serious!

This thread isn't anything to go by.

While i agree that women can be vicious to each other, Lisa being a case in point, the wider problem is the patriarchy.

Much of what women do to each other is because we are in competition with each other. You know, when you walk into a bar and you just know that half the women in there are giving you a mark out of ten to size you up for competition?

And women can be cruel. No question.

But my experience with my female friends is not that.

Not is my experience with my male friends.

The problem lies higher up the totem pole. Why are we in competition with each other? Why are we cruel?

Lisa is a classic example of the patriarchy's influence. She is rude to the point of cruelty to other women yet she kisses the arse of any men around. She fabricates her life story so she appears desirable to a misogynist man's standards and slips that alleged desirability into every space she can.

She is threatened by other women. It is a common problem.

That is not to say women are each other's greatest problems ... rather that stupid women squabble over scraps from the table.

Thoe of us who have learned better do better.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #539 - Jun 6^th, 2015 at 12:21am

Phemanderac wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 1:48pm:

Oh, and what I do have an "issue" with, to be clear, is people telling me what I really meant to say, or what I am struggling with or how I am thinking or, and this one is almost a daily occurrence, what I would or would not do/understand/achieve/manage etc etc etc because I am a bloke...

It seems odd to me that this is acceptable except if I do it, because I am a bloke.

I am clear about what I mean, say and do. Now, if there is something that anyone does not understand, would like to know more about or wants to challenge or disagree with - then no worries - I would respectfully suggest though, if anyone uses any of the above then do not be surprised if the response is uncomfortable.

I am a supporter of the ideals of universal freedom.

Equality is not a part of that because it is not a natural, realistic or sustainable ideal in my opinion.

Further, not being equal does not totally rely on one being superior and one inferior, we are a complex beast (ironically, all animals are somewhat complex) and therefore, our inequities often play on what strengths can we utilise to work together..... The whole superior/inferior mindset I think is part of our species immaturity! It certainly does need some attention, however, there is a whole lot more to universal freedom...

I get you Phem. I think you and i are very much on the same page. We just have differences of opinion about the terminology.

And for what it's worth, i can tell very easily that you are male.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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