Australian Politics Forum - Womens Biggest Issues Are ...

mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #660 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:00pm

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:55am:

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:47am:

Victim blaming is actually part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Using phrases like "victim blaming" isn't part of any solution. You leave your car doors unlocked in the ghetto, and your car gets stolen, you won't get much sympathy (if you're a bloke) yet when women make shithouse decisions, it's always "societies fault" and the whole world needs to be reinvented, rather than accept that they buggered up.

I suspect you're not interested in any solution - you're more interested in apportioning blame elsewhere than being safe and happy.

It's not society's fault ... it is the fault of the person being violent.

I find it interesting that you completely ignore both my argument bout grooming and the male's role in this.

Teach women to avoid bad men you say? Not so easy when the man doesn't present as 'bad' until the woman is already immersed.

Yet i don't see you making the argument to teach men not to be violent in the first place. An obvious first step? Yes?

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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #661 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:00pm

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:55am:

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:49am:

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:42am:

Fathers used to instil that caution (before they were deemed superfluous) and look out for their daughters, and they didn't do it to be "oppressive".

Lucky mum is still there to teach her daughter not to listen to nothing no man says eh? Grrrrl Power!

Plenty of women with loving and supportive fathers end up in DV situations. Nor are fathers superfluous.

You have your facts preposterously wrong.

Your source?

I know them.

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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35146 Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #662 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:14pm In fact. the strongest known connection to fatherhood and domestic violence is that sons learn from their fathers h9ow to treat women.
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...

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #663 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:19pm

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:00pm:

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:55am:

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:47am:

Victim blaming is actually part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Using phrases like "victim blaming" isn't part of any solution. You leave your car doors unlocked in the ghetto, and your car gets stolen, you won't get much sympathy (if you're a bloke) yet when women make shithouse decisions, it's always "societies fault" and the whole world needs to be reinvented, rather than accept that they buggered up.

I suspect you're not interested in any solution - you're more interested in apportioning blame elsewhere than being safe and happy.

It's not society's fault ... it is the fault of the person being violent.

I find it interesting that you completely ignore both my argument bout grooming and the male's role in this.

Teach women to avoid bad men you say? Not so easy when the man doesn't present as 'bad' until the woman is already immersed.

If they are not able to recognise signs, I see a clear need for education. Those who they look up to and rely upon to prepare them for the world are failing. You know who are really good at spotting bad men? Good men.

Quote:

Yet i don't see you making the argument to teach men not to be violent in the first place. An obvious first step? Yes?

That "first step" was first taken thousands of years ago. It's been on a constant downward slope since then.

But people have been taught not to steal for thousands of years, but people are still stealing. other people however learnt to be suspicious and take actions to minimise their risk. There may be something to take away from this fable, but I doubt it you'll see it.

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« Last Edit: Jun 7^th, 2015 at 1:06pm by ... »

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #664 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:20pm

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:00pm:

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:55am:

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:49am:

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:42am:

Fathers used to instil that caution (before they were deemed superfluous) and look out for their daughters, and they didn't do it to be "oppressive".

Lucky mum is still there to teach her daughter not to listen to nothing no man says eh? Grrrrl Power!

Plenty of women with loving and supportive fathers end up in DV situations. Nor are fathers superfluous.

You have your facts preposterously wrong.

Your source?

I know them.

Heh. Yeh.

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In the fullness of time...

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...

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #665 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:25pm

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:14pm:

In fact. the strongest known connection to fatherhood and domestic violence is that sons learn from their fathers h9ow to treat women.

I don't doubt that. Also, it's not just what they've learnt, but the fathers genetic legacy.

But it's hard to see why you brought his up - sons are not who you're worried about, and you specifically mentioned "loving and supportive fathers" which doesn't really apply to people who beat the poo out of their kids.

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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #666 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 2:39pm

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:20pm:

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:00pm:

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:55am:

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:49am:

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:42am:

Fathers used to instil that caution (before they were deemed superfluous) and look out for their daughters, and they didn't do it to be "oppressive".

Lucky mum is still there to teach her daughter not to listen to nothing no man says eh? Grrrrl Power!

Plenty of women with loving and supportive fathers end up in DV situations. Nor are fathers superfluous.

You have your facts preposterously wrong.

Your source?

I know them.

Heh. Yeh.

Yeah indeed. I've studied family violence extensively and worked as a support person for women needing help and support.

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mothra

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #667 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 2:43pm

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:25pm:

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:14pm:

In fact. the strongest known connection to fatherhood and domestic violence is that sons learn from their fathers h9ow to treat women.

I don't doubt that. Also, it's not just what they've learnt, but the fathers genetic legacy.

But it's hard to see why you brought his up - sons are not who you're worried about, and you specifically mentioned "loving and supportive fathers" which doesn't really apply to people who beat the poo out of their kids.

You said women were taught by their fathers how to avoid bad men. I'm telling you that good fathers is not a necessary fctor to being abused.

It is certainly a determinant to being an abuser, but not to being abused.

There does exist a connection between people who re the victims of child abuse continuing dangerous patterns in adult life, true ... but domestic violence is a less discriminate in general. Domestic violence workers and police officers end up as victims of DV ... alond with those who were mistreated as children.

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Agnes Gold Member Offline fish dinner Posts: 6081 Bedford Park rnd	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #668 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 4:28pm mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 12:14pm: In fact. the strongest known connection to fatherhood and domestic violence is that sons learn from their fathers h9ow to treat women. 100% agree with this
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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #669 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 4:29pm mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 2:39pm: Yeah indeed. I've studied family violence extensively and worked as a support person for women needing help and support. of course you have. How very convenient.
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Agnes Gold Member Offline fish dinner Posts: 6081 Bedford Park rnd	Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ... Reply #670 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 4:43pm rhino wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 4:29pm: mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 2:39pm: Yeah indeed. I've studied family violence extensively and worked as a support person for women needing help and support. of course you have. How very convenient. Rhino- want to tell us something- ?
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Emma

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #671 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 6:40pm

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

Emma wrote on Jun 6^th, 2015 at 11:49pm:

I would say that the FACT that 2 women per week have been killed by their partner every week since the beginning of 2015 is a really serious issue.
That is tragic and should be of genuine concern to any person with some true sense of self, any person who cares for something other than themselves.

The soulless keep yakking on with their usual bias though.

In the face of this FACT,, Angry

, shame on you you wastes of space. I wonder how much you would be whinging if 2 men were killed by their partners every week, week in week out. Angry

SCUM.

Well it's obviously not great, but remember how I showed you that more than twice as many men are murdered as women?
Not sure you could legislate that women choose decent partners anyway.

Seeing as you now own up to being of the male gender, I'll say this:

.. twice as many men MAY be murdered but not by their female partners. (at the moment Cool

.. how many men are killed by other men.?, in comparison to men killed by their female spouse. ? Hmm?

Now that would be something you could show me .. that I would read with genuine interest.!

YOU might find it of interest as well.

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Emma

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #672 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 6:47pm

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:20am:

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:19am:

If only there were some way of teaching women responsibility, without being considered "oppressive" or "patriarchal".

We teach people not to go down dark alleys where deadbeats are loitering if they don't want to get robbed - it's just common sense - yet women are actually encouraged to "follow their heart" and date the deadshit bad boys that end up killing them.

You're actually blaming the woman?

Think.

If someone did get robbed cutting through a dark alley, the "blame" is still on the deadbeats, but the victim could have gone a looooong way towards minimising or eliminating that risk if they exercised some caution.

This is about domestic violence perpetrated on partners, Honky, NOT drunken women wandering down dark alleys. Roll Eyes

Good grief.!$(*&*^&%^%$@#$%^%, as you would prefer to paint victims of this type of violence. Talk about trying to change the grounds here.. Fail.!

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Emma

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #673 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 6:51pm

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:47am:

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:20am:

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:19am:

If only there were some way of teaching women responsibility, without being considered "oppressive" or "patriarchal".

We teach people not to go down dark alleys where deadbeats are loitering if they don't want to get robbed - it's just common sense - yet women are actually encouraged to "follow their heart" and date the deadshit bad boys that end up killing them.

You're actually blaming the woman?

Think.

If someone did get robbed cutting through a dark alley, the "blame" is still on the deadbeats, but the victim could have gone a looooong way towards minimising or eliminating that risk if they exercised some caution.

There is evidently much you don't know or understand about the cycle of domestic violence. Even people well trained and versed in the phenomena fall victim.

It is likened quite well to a frog being placed in a pot of cold water that is slowly brought up to the boil. The frog doesn't realise it's in danger until it's too hot to jump out.

Victims are groomed. It starts out small. Little things that slowly erode the self esteem. By the time it reaches crisis point, the victim is usually well primed.

Victim blaming is actually part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Precisely. Pity rational thought is so pervaded and degraded by sexist rubbish.

I agree with you Mothra. Once you realise the huge hole you are in, it is often too late to climb out, whole.

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Re: Womens Biggest Issues Are ...
Reply #674 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 7:04pm

Emma wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 6:47pm:

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:20am:

... wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:19am:

If only there were some way of teaching women responsibility, without being considered "oppressive" or "patriarchal".

We teach people not to go down dark alleys where deadbeats are loitering if they don't want to get robbed - it's just common sense - yet women are actually encouraged to "follow their heart" and date the deadshit bad boys that end up killing them.

You're actually blaming the woman?

Think.

If someone did get robbed cutting through a dark alley, the "blame" is still on the deadbeats, but the victim could have gone a looooong way towards minimising or eliminating that risk if they exercised some caution.

This is about domestic violence perpetrated on partners, Honky, NOT drunken women wandering down dark alleys. Roll Eyes

Good grief.!$(*&*^&%^%$@#$%^%, as you would prefer to paint victims of this type of violence. Talk about trying to change the grounds here.. Fail.!

No surprise that went right over your head.

There is a golden rule among men (which is often broken, to their detriment) - don't stick your dick in crazy. It's meansrecognise the warning signs, and stay the hell away from women who display dangerous character traits. I'd like to see the same level of cognisance among women.

Maybe the drug dealing bikie who gets your motor running doesn't really have a heart of gold. Chances are if he walks like a scumbag and talks like a scumbag, a scumbag is precisely what he is, and you should exercise discretion before becoming involved with him - just like your grandparents advised your mother to do. But it's hard to admit wrong choices have been made, isn't it?

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