Australian Politics Forum - Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment

aquascoot

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Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment
Reply #45 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 9:30am

Quote:

Well aquascoot, the thing is I don't think we do agree. Sad

Crook, looks like its you and a few pommie shop stewards Versus me, wall street, every multinational on earth, the US congress , the politburo of china, Russia and every Asian tiger economy.

I think we are going to win.

Workchoices , call it what you like,
everything you buy now has a deregulated price (except bread and rice in venezuala)
your labour and the rate you sell it for will be deregulated out from underneath you (actually it already has)

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Bam

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Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment
Reply #46 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 9:47am

aquascoot wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 9:30am:

Quote:

Well aquascoot, the thing is I don't think we do agree. Sad

Crook, looks like its you and a few pommie shop stewards Versus me, wall street, every multinational on earth, the US congress , the politburo of china, Russia and every Asian tiger economy.

I think we are going to win.

Workchoices , call it what you like,
everything you buy now has a deregulated price (except bread and rice in venezuala)
your labour and the rate you sell it for will be deregulated out from underneath you (actually it already has)

And something you can never, ever figure out - it will affect YOU as well.

Do you really think that the workers will cop a 50% or greater drop in their income just so the bosses can grow even fatter on the labour of the workers? Or do you think the pay of CEOs will come down as well? CEO pay needs to be cut by 95% to take it back to the same proportion of workers' pay that it had in the 1960's. It is inevitable. If the workers are part of a global market, the CEOs are also a part of the global market.

Nobody will cop a 50% drop in their income if they have a mortgage to service. If pay dropped by that amount, it WILL create a depression in Australia as money is taken out of the economy, with mortgage defaults around the country.

It's why I keep speaking out against all the factors that cause house prices to be unnecessarily high - negative gearing, capital gains concessions, lax enforcement of foreign investment rules, everything. We need to take the pressure off house prices and get them stable. Germany has stable house prices (no increase for 20 years) and it has the strongest economy in Europe, a strong manufacturing base and a culture of hard work and savings. Germans do a lot of things right. Maybe we should start emulating them more.

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Kat

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Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment
Reply #47 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 9:53am

Bam wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 9:47am:

aquascoot wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 9:30am:

Quote:

Well aquascoot, the thing is I don't think we do agree. Sad

Crook, looks like its you and a few pommie shop stewards Versus me, wall street, every multinational on earth, the US congress , the politburo of china, Russia and every Asian tiger economy.

I think we are going to win.

Workchoices , call it what you like,
everything you buy now has a deregulated price (except bread and rice in venezuala)
your labour and the rate you sell it for will be deregulated out from underneath you (actually it already has)

And something you can never, ever figure out - it will affect YOU as well.

Do you really think that the workers will cop a 50% or greater drop in their income just so the bosses can grow even fatter on the labour of the workers? Or do you think the pay of CEOs will come down as well? CEO pay needs to be cut by 95% to take it back to the same proportion of workers' pay that it had in the 1960's. It is inevitable. If the workers are part of a global market, the CEOs are also a part of the global market.

Nobody will cop a 50% drop in their income if they have a mortgage to service. If pay dropped by that amount, it WILL create a depression in Australia as money is taken out of the economy, with mortgage defaults around the country.

It's why I keep speaking out against all the factors that cause house prices to be unnecessarily high - negative gearing, capital gains concessions, lax enforcement of foreign investment rules, everything. We need to take the pressure off house prices and get them stable. Germany has stable house prices (no increase for 20 years) and it has the strongest economy in Europe, a strong manufacturing base and a culture of hard work and savings. Germans do a lot of things right. Maybe we should start emulating them more.

We are, but in all the bad old ways, unfortunately. Not the good, modern, forward-thinking ways.

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aquascoot

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Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment
Reply #48 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 9:56am

Bam wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 9:47am:

aquascoot wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 9:30am:

Quote:

Well aquascoot, the thing is I don't think we do agree. Sad

Crook, looks like its you and a few pommie shop stewards Versus me, wall street, every multinational on earth, the US congress , the politburo of china, Russia and every Asian tiger economy.

I think we are going to win.

Workchoices , call it what you like,
everything you buy now has a deregulated price (except bread and rice in venezuala)
your labour and the rate you sell it for will be deregulated out from underneath you (actually it already has)

And something you can never, ever figure out - it will affect YOU as well.

Do you really think that the workers will cop a 50% or greater drop in their income just so the bosses can grow even fatter on the labour of the workers? Or do you think the pay of CEOs will come down as well? CEO pay needs to be cut by 95% to take it back to the same proportion of workers' pay that it had in the 1960's. It is inevitable. If the workers are part of a global market, the CEOs are also a part of the global market.

Nobody will cop a 50% drop in their income if they have a mortgage to service. If pay dropped by that amount, it WILL create a depression in Australia as money is taken out of the economy, with mortgage defaults around the country.

It's why I keep speaking out against all the factors that cause house prices to be unnecessarily high - negative gearing, capital gains concessions, lax enforcement of foreign investment rules, everything. We need to take the pressure off house prices and get them stable. Germany has stable house prices (no increase for 20 years) and it has the strongest economy in Europe, a strong manufacturing base and a culture of hard work and savings. Germans do a lot of things right. Maybe we should start emulating them more.

I'm sure the Occupy Wall Street people have already fixed this one Wink

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DaS Energy

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Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment
Reply #49 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:03am

aquascoot wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 8:37am:

Dnarever wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 7:49am:

aquascoot wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 7:44am:

Dnarever wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 7:24am:

To the conservatives high unemployment is not a bad thing, sure they took credit for the coincidental low unemployment during the Howard term but that was not really what they wanted.

To the conservatives a huge pool of unemployed can be used to drive the lowest wages down further with competition for low paying work which is done by the people they don't like and don't care about.

No , I would disagree with that.
lots of people, innovative and starting new small businesses (and that's where the future employment is) creates lots of demand in the economy, lots of spenders and buyers,'
The only business that would like high unemployment would be EB games, foxtel and blockbuster video.

Also, people are the business, especially in small business. if you have good people and your competitors have staff that are "slackers", then their business is doomed.
this is the big problem for the unemployed and why I keep telling them that talking doom and gloom like crook or greenswin is death to your employment prospects. its why I keep telling them that getting a job (a good job) is like getting a good date.
you have to put in effort.
it isn't going to just happen and having a negative attitude is something an employer or a customer can pick up on immediately. the slacker has a certain 'stench of failure" about him.
he needs an attitude change before his employment prospects will be going anywhere. and hating on the bosses and employers is plain ridiculous. its like being the worlds biggest misogynist and then going to a singles bar.

No , I would disagree with that.

Well there's a surprise.

Actually this was the policy the liberals implemented when Howard was treasurer and they explained what they were trying to do.

It was meant to cure stagflation by driving wages down. It not only didn't work it made the problem worse. One of the reason that Howard is widely considered to be Australia's worst ever treasurer.

But Yes the Liberals have deliberately done this in the past, they implemented policy meant to increase unemployment to achieve a general wage reduction to assist employers. The theory that a large pool of unemployed means a pool of cheap labour is attractive to conservatives.

Workchoices may not be popular but it is a road down which we will be going.
The globalisation of nearly all markets for "stuff" MUST include a realisation that "wages for labour" is part of that "stuff"

when Ken Knight won the Harvard business award for his thesis on NIKE being a "global roamer". that NIKE would move its factory to korea and when cheaper wages became available in Vietnam, would move there and when cheaper wages became availbale in Indonesia , would move there.....the die has been cast my friend,

Hansen wanted to put up barriers, barriers and tarrifs that were shredded by union heavy weight Bob Hawke.

aussies can bury their head in the sand and think they deserve $ 40 a hour to manufacture the same item that an Asian will do for $5.
They can think they deserve $30 an hour to work in a call centre when an Asian will do it for $5.

But they are pissing into the wind.
workchoices and flexibility of the labor market is inevitable.

the powers of globalisation of the labour market aren't going to stop for crook or yourself, no matter how much you bury your head in the sand.

the unions will make this problem much worse.
learn from our sectors which can compete globally

farming
health
finance and insurance
private universities

hardly a union in site.

the union is dead and workchoices is coming.
Bob Hawke and John Button made it so (and good on them)

See Ford, Holden, Toyota, Alcoa;

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Dnarever

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Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment
Reply #50 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:13am

aquascoot wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 8:37am:

Workchoices may not be popular but it is a road down which we will be going.
The globalisation of nearly all markets for "stuff" MUST include a realisation that "wages for labour" is part of that "stuff"

when Ken Knight won the Harvard business award for his thesis on NIKE being a "global roamer". that NIKE would move its factory to korea and when cheaper wages became available in Vietnam, would move there and when cheaper wages became availbale in Indonesia , would move there.....the die has been cast my friend,

Hansen wanted to put up barriers, barriers and tarrifs that were shredded by union heavy weight Bob Hawke.

aussies can bury their head in the sand and think they deserve $ 40 a hour to manufacture the same item that an Asian will do for $5.
They can think they deserve $30 an hour to work in a call centre when an Asian will do it for $5.

But they are pissing into the wind.
workchoices and flexibility of the labor market is inevitable.

the powers of globalisation of the labour market aren't going to stop for crook or yourself, no matter how much you bury your head in the sand.

the unions will make this problem much worse.
learn from our sectors which can compete globally

farming
health
finance and insurance
private universities

hardly a union in site.

the union is dead and workchoices is coming.
Bob Hawke and John Button made it so (and good on them)

Workchoices may not be popular but it is a road down which we will be going.
The globalisation of nearly all markets for "stuff" MUST include a realisation that "wages for labour" is part of that "stuff"

All the same people are happy to exclude Management Labour from the same equations. Claims that upper management wages are a result of competition are BS right up to CEO level.

Instead of paying $5Million + Bonuses + Share options you could get an Indian fellow to do the job just as well for $110K with the only bonus being that he gets to keep his job if he performs.

In You Nike example - Mark Parker earned $15.5 Million in 2013.

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imcrookonit Ex Member	Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment Reply #51 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:14am Did someone say Workchoices is coming?. All unions stand by for industrial action.
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MumboJumbo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1474 Gender:	Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment Reply #52 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:26am Quote: All unions stand by ... and do nothing.
Back to top	See Profile For Update wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 2:58pm: Why the bugger did I get stuck on a planet chalked full of imbeciles? IP Logged

Bam

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Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment
Reply #53 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:32am

aquascoot wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 7:44am:

The only business that would like high unemployment would be EB games, foxtel and blockbuster video.

Your implication that the unemployed are lazy is highly offensive (and I'm sure you do it on purpose). This sort of well-poisoning fkwittery is not helpful.

Quote:

this is the big problem for the unemployed and why I keep telling them that talking doom and gloom like crook or greenswin is death to your employment prospects. its why I keep telling them that getting a job (a good job) is like getting a good date.
you have to put in effort.

Here is your patronising attitude coming out again. You haven't got a clue. Do you really think the unemployed aren't looking for work? Do you really think someone who's applied for 1,000 jobs isn't trying?

I doubt you've applied for 1,000 jobs in your frigging LIFE. Yet there's at least 100,000 unemployed people in this country, right now, who have cracked that milestone since they last held a steady job. That is 100,000,000 unsuccessful job applications. Is there something wrong with what they are doing? Not usually. The only real problem is the inconvenient gap in the resume and the attitude among employers who think it fit to reject applicants with gaps in their work history. An unemployed person hasn't a chance in the current job market. Not because they are not trying, but because the rest of society has unfairly stigmatised the unemployed by perpetuating myths and stereotypes that have not been current for 40 years.

Quote:

it isn't going to just happen and having a negative attitude is something an employer or a customer can pick up on immediately. the slacker has a certain 'stench of failure" about him.

If you've applied for 1,000 jobs and not got one of them, you would not be optimistic either.

Quote:

he needs an attitude change before his employment prospects will be going anywhere.

Yes, an attitude change is needed - but not for the unemployed person. The attitude chance that is desperately needed is among the employers who will not hire anyone with gaps in their employment history, and the idiots in society as a whole who make life hard for the unemployed by stigmatising unemployment.

Your attitude is definitely in need of adjustment, with your unwarranted slurs against the unemployed, your offensive patronisation and your general ignorance. I'm sure you do it on purpose because nobody who is sane would keep repeating the same lies and filth after being proven wrong.

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DaS Energy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3962 Gender:	Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment Reply #54 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:35am MumboJumbo wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:26am: Quote: All unions stand by ... and do nothing. No,not not at all, and all out effort will be put into what bastards the bosses are for closing down the factory, and don't forget to pay your Union dues!
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aquascoot

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Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment
Reply #55 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:56am

Dnarever wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:13am:

aquascoot wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 8:37am:

Workchoices may not be popular but it is a road down which we will be going.
The globalisation of nearly all markets for "stuff" MUST include a realisation that "wages for labour" is part of that "stuff"

when Ken Knight won the Harvard business award for his thesis on NIKE being a "global roamer". that NIKE would move its factory to korea and when cheaper wages became available in Vietnam, would move there and when cheaper wages became availbale in Indonesia , would move there.....the die has been cast my friend,

Hansen wanted to put up barriers, barriers and tarrifs that were shredded by union heavy weight Bob Hawke.

aussies can bury their head in the sand and think they deserve $ 40 a hour to manufacture the same item that an Asian will do for $5.
They can think they deserve $30 an hour to work in a call centre when an Asian will do it for $5.

But they are pissing into the wind.
workchoices and flexibility of the labor market is inevitable.

the powers of globalisation of the labour market aren't going to stop for crook or yourself, no matter how much you bury your head in the sand.

the unions will make this problem much worse.
learn from our sectors which can compete globally

farming
health
finance and insurance
private universities

hardly a union in site.

the union is dead and workchoices is coming.
Bob Hawke and John Button made it so (and good on them)

Workchoices may not be popular but it is a road down which we will be going.
The globalisation of nearly all markets for "stuff" MUST include a realisation that "wages for labour" is part of that "stuff"

All the same people are happy to exclude Management Labour from the same equations. Claims that upper management wages are a result of competition are BS right up to CEO level.

Instead of paying $5Million + Bonuses + Share options you could get an Indian fellow to do the job just as well for $110K with the only bonus being that he gets to keep his job if he performs.
In You Nike example - Mark Parker earned $15.5 Million in 2013.

I have no problem with this.i would welcome Asian business people running our enterprises at 10% of the salary. small business does most of the employing and small business finds that big business is the enemy (an enemy assisted by government I might add, which does nothing to prevent duopolies and which is beholden to big business through its donations).
Small business creates 70 % of new jobs.
liberals are beholden to big business and labour are beholden to big unions.

both big business and big unions are the natural enemy of the small business person.
therefore, taking this to the logical extension, both labor and liberals are the enemy.

the clever Asian small business person recognises this and works 'beneath the radar'
he pays cash, he avoids tax, he tries to be "unnoticed" by government. he has adapted to the new paradym.
Less government, less regulation (apart from the ACCC ) are all good for employment and for the economy.
But, no , unions are not the answer. sorry crook Wink

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment
Reply #56 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 12:22pm

MumboJumbo wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:26am:

Quote:

All unions stand by

... and do nothing.

If we do nothing now it will inevitably lead to war later. You cannot appease the internationalist piracy convenors by offering a small piece of your sovereignty each time they demand.

WHEN - not if - the global economy collapses, there well be wars and wars and rumours of wars to re-establish the simple basis of civilised society - the genuine opportunity to simply have enough to get by on.

Fight now when it's peaceful using peaceful means - or fight later when it's a war that will make Hunger Games pale into insignificance.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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aquascoot

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Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment
Reply #57 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 12:30pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 12:22pm:

MumboJumbo wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:26am:

Quote:

All unions stand by

... and do nothing.

If we do nothing now it will inevitably lead to war later. You cannot appease the internationalist piracy convenors by offering a small piece of your sovereignty each time they demand.

WHEN - not if - the global economy collapses, there well be wars and wars and rumours of wars to re-establish the simple basis of civilised society - the genuine opportunity to simply have enough to get by on.

Fight now when it's peaceful using peaceful means - or fight later when it's a war that will make Hunger Games pale into insignificance.

or train hard like me so you would be good at the hunger games

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Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85099 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment Reply #58 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 12:43pm Don't hog all the attention.... is that a pig jihadist?
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Coalition's Newstart obligations fuel unemployment Reply #59 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 1:53pm Unions can and should play an important role in the workplace. They never would have formed in the first place if they were not necessary.
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