Australian Politics Forum - Number 1 wally

Bobby.

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #15 - Aug 12^th, 2014 at 9:55pm

Adamant wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 4:58pm:

Has this on the bottom of his page as a quote.

""Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013."

Problem.

"Two-thirds of British terror suspects are from middle-class backgrounds and those who become suicide bombers are often highly educated, "

"The report added: ‘Where data is available, two-thirds came from middle or upper-middle-class backgrounds, showing there is no simplistic relationship between poverty and involvement in Islamist extremism".

“Terrorists are not just from slums – statistically, a disproportionate number of global jihadis come from a higher education background,” said Nawaz, who was formerly a member of the Hizbut Tahrir (HT). He quit the group to found Khudi, which works to counter extremism"

More than 95 percent of all suicide bombing attacks conducted worldwide are carried out by Muslim extremists

Well done Wally1. Have you fed the fairies at the bottom of your garden today?

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Terrorism

Religion is a sickness that even intelligent people can acquire.

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freediver

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #16 - Aug 13^th, 2014 at 9:59am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2014 at 3:13pm:

The wiki article quotes an Mi5 report to support the view that islamic terrorists are predominantly well adjusted, sociable and "mainstream" muslims.

Yet another - more relevant - Mi5 report on terrorist profiling stated that:

Quote:

Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1

I'm guessing wikiislam hasn't felt the urge to quote this particular report Cheesy

This is a good point Gandalf. Just as born again Christians are more annoying, born again Muslims are more likely to blow up a bus.

So all we have to do to stop buses blowing up is stop Islam spreading?

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Brian Ross

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #17 - Aug 13^th, 2014 at 8:04pm

freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 9:59am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2014 at 3:13pm:

The wiki article quotes an Mi5 report to support the view that islamic terrorists are predominantly well adjusted, sociable and "mainstream" muslims.

Yet another - more relevant - Mi5 report on terrorist profiling stated that:

Quote:

Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1

I'm guessing wikiislam hasn't felt the urge to quote this particular report Cheesy

This is a good point Gandalf. Just as born again Christians are more annoying, born again Muslims are more likely to blow up a bus.

So all we have to do to stop buses blowing up is stop Islam spreading?

You provide the answer to your own question, FD. What we need to stop is the spread of radical "born again" Islam, not the old style, conservative, Islam. Roll Eyes

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #18 - Aug 13^th, 2014 at 8:15pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2014 at 3:13pm:

The wiki article quotes an Mi5 report to support the view that islamic terrorists are predominantly well adjusted, sociable and "mainstream" muslims.

Yet another - more relevant - Mi5 report on terrorist profiling stated that:

Quote:

Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1

I'm guessing wikiislam hasn't felt the urge to quote this particular report Cheesy

I found this surprising, but I'm not sure why. It makes sense. I guess that it's the same mentality that causes people to join gangs. Quite confronting when you think about it. Do you think there should be a particular focus for dealing with disaffected Muslim youth from non-religious backgrounds?

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Karnal

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #19 - Aug 13^th, 2014 at 8:26pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 8:04pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 9:59am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2014 at 3:13pm:

The wiki article quotes an Mi5 report to support the view that islamic terrorists are predominantly well adjusted, sociable and "mainstream" muslims.

Yet another - more relevant - Mi5 report on terrorist profiling stated that:

Quote:

Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1

I'm guessing wikiislam hasn't felt the urge to quote this particular report Cheesy

This is a good point Gandalf. Just as born again Christians are more annoying, born again Muslims are more likely to blow up a bus.

So all we have to do to stop buses blowing up is stop Islam spreading?

You provide the answer to your own question, FD. What we need to stop is the spread of radical "born again" Islam, not the old style, conservative, Islam. Roll Eyes

Do we? I would have thought we just needed to stop people blowing up busses, but that’s just me.

Seeing as the busses seem to be staying in one piece, maybe we need to move onto the Afghan camel drivers.

Thoughts?

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Bobby.

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #20 - Aug 13^th, 2014 at 8:33pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 8:15pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2014 at 3:13pm:

The wiki article quotes an Mi5 report to support the view that islamic terrorists are predominantly well adjusted, sociable and "mainstream" muslims.

Yet another - more relevant - Mi5 report on terrorist profiling stated that:

Quote:

Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1

I'm guessing wikiislam hasn't felt the urge to quote this particular report Cheesy

I found this surprising, but I'm not sure why. It makes sense. I guess that it's the same mentality that causes people to join gangs. Quite confronting when you think about it. Do you think there should be a particular focus for dealing with disaffected Muslim youth from non-religious backgrounds?

Why doesn't every Muslim leader in the world stand up & say
that hacking peoples heads off & mass executions are wrong?

The horror is off the scale.

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freediver

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #21 - Aug 13^th, 2014 at 9:58pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 8:04pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 9:59am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2014 at 3:13pm:

The wiki article quotes an Mi5 report to support the view that islamic terrorists are predominantly well adjusted, sociable and "mainstream" muslims.

Yet another - more relevant - Mi5 report on terrorist profiling stated that:

Quote:

Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1

I'm guessing wikiislam hasn't felt the urge to quote this particular report Cheesy

This is a good point Gandalf. Just as born again Christians are more annoying, born again Muslims are more likely to blow up a bus.

So all we have to do to stop buses blowing up is stop Islam spreading?

You provide the answer to your own question, FD. What we need to stop is the spread of radical "born again" Islam, not the old style, conservative, Islam. Roll Eyes

You mean the head hacking Islam of Muhammed the warmonger?

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Brian Ross

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #22 - Aug 14^th, 2014 at 12:49am

freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 9:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 8:04pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 9:59am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2014 at 3:13pm:

The wiki article quotes an Mi5 report to support the view that islamic terrorists are predominantly well adjusted, sociable and "mainstream" muslims.

Yet another - more relevant - Mi5 report on terrorist profiling stated that:

Quote:

Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1

I'm guessing wikiislam hasn't felt the urge to quote this particular report Cheesy

This is a good point Gandalf. Just as born again Christians are more annoying, born again Muslims are more likely to blow up a bus.

So all we have to do to stop buses blowing up is stop Islam spreading?

You provide the answer to your own question, FD. What we need to stop is the spread of radical "born again" Islam, not the old style, conservative, Islam. Roll Eyes

You mean the head hacking Islam of Muhammed the warmonger?

Good to see you following George Brandis' advice, FD.

How about trying to discuss it in a more on topic, less confrontational style for a change or is that too hard?

I think we need to address is the spread of radical Islam. The alienation of second or even third generation Muslim immigrants is something that attitudes like yours cause and that drives them straight into the arms of the radicals. We've seen similar problems with other immigrant groups, with the second generation often feeling alienated from both their parent's culture and rejected and harried by the dominant white, Anglo-Saxon/Celtic settler culture. This has resulted in higher than normal criminal rates amongst them. We've managed to address (or largely ignore) that problem and it's righted itself. Muslim youngsters seem to need more, not less help and accepting them and their culture may well help. Of course, I realise suggesting that to someone acts and talks the way you do is more than likely falling on deaf ears but hey, at least it's being said. Roll Eyes

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #23 - Aug 14^th, 2014 at 12:33pm

Quote:

I think we need to address is the spread of radical Islam. The alienation of second or even third generation Muslim immigrants is something that attitudes like yours cause and that drives them straight into the arms of the radicals.

So we need to make more of an effort to appease terroristsd in case they blow up busses and we only have ourselves to blame?

Quote:

We've seen similar problems with other immigrant groups

Which immigrant groups were ideologically opposed to freedom and democracy?

Quote:

This has resulted in higher than normal criminal rates amongst them. We've managed to address (or largely ignore) that problem and it's righted itself. Muslim youngsters seem to need more, not less help and accepting them and their culture may well help.

What kind of help are you suggesting?

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Karnal

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #24 - Aug 14^th, 2014 at 1:40pm

freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 9:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 8:04pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2014 at 9:59am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2014 at 3:13pm:

The wiki article quotes an Mi5 report to support the view that islamic terrorists are predominantly well adjusted, sociable and "mainstream" muslims.

Yet another - more relevant - Mi5 report on terrorist profiling stated that:

Quote:

Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1

I'm guessing wikiislam hasn't felt the urge to quote this particular report Cheesy

This is a good point Gandalf. Just as born again Christians are more annoying, born again Muslims are more likely to blow up a bus.

So all we have to do to stop buses blowing up is stop Islam spreading?

You provide the answer to your own question, FD. What we need to stop is the spread of radical "born again" Islam, not the old style, conservative, Islam. Roll Eyes

You mean the head hacking Islam of Muhammed the warmonger?

Not sure, FD. Isn’t there an article somewhere on Muhammed’s ban on mutilating corpses?

Please get back with a summary.

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« Last Edit: Aug 14^th, 2014 at 1:46pm by Karnal »

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Karnal

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #25 - Aug 14^th, 2014 at 1:44pm

freediver wrote on Aug 14^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

Quote:

I think we need to address is the spread of radical Islam. The alienation of second or even third generation Muslim immigrants is something that attitudes like yours cause and that drives them straight into the arms of the radicals.

So we need to make more of an effort to appease terroristsd in case they blow up busses and we only have ourselves to blame?

I’m confused, FD. Isn’t it more in case they become Afghan camel drivers?

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Brian Ross

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #26 - Aug 14^th, 2014 at 7:28pm

freediver wrote on Aug 14^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

Quote:

I think we need to address is the spread of radical Islam. The alienation of second or even third generation Muslim immigrants is something that attitudes like yours cause and that drives them straight into the arms of the radicals.

So we need to make more of an effort to appease terroristsd in case they blow up busses and we only have ourselves to blame?

No and you know that is not what I mean. You are being deliberately obtuse, FD.

I am suggesting that you could go some way towards attempting to understand and accept ordinary, everyday, moderate Muslims more and not reject them out of hand merely because they are of that faith. That rejection is what alienates them and drives them into the arms of the fundamentalists, FD. Roll Eyes

Your attitude is one of bigotry - if it is Muslim it is bad, if they are Muslim they are dishonest. I'm just waiting for you to declare that you think they "come here and steal our jobs and break our windows and rape our women..." Roll Eyes

Quote:

We've seen similar problems with other immigrant groups

Which immigrant groups were ideologically opposed to freedom and democracy?

No immigrant group is "ideologically opposed to freedom and democracy". Individuals may be but the entire Muslim community? What planet do you live on, FD, really? 'cause it sure isn't the Earth. I've never met a Muslim opposed to "freedom and democracy" and I've met a fairly wide cross section. You speak as if this is what the majority of Muslims believe. Roll Eyes

It's also obvious you've never grown up with southern European immigrants. Many of their kids in the 1960s and 70s were tearaways, often in trouble with the law, involved in minor crime, drug dealing, etc., as they rebelled against both their parents and the wider community from which they felt alienated.

Quote:

Quote:

This has resulted in higher than normal criminal rates amongst them. We've managed to address (or largely ignore) that problem and it's righted itself. Muslim youngsters seem to need more, not less help and accepting them and their culture may well help.

What kind of help are you suggesting?

Perhaps greater funding for community organisations? Greater provision of social services? Help for their parents and their community leaders to shore up their authority? Why not ask the Muslims? I'm sure they could tell you what they need or want.

I've read many times that one of the reasons why the Lebanese in particular have felt alienated from the wider community is because they were lumped down in (primarily) Sydney and ignored by the Government(s) and essentially expected to sink or swim. That obviously didn't work out all that well, now did it?

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #27 - Aug 14^th, 2014 at 8:41pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 14^th, 2014 at 7:28pm:

No immigrant group is "ideologically opposed to freedom and democracy". Individuals may be but the entire Muslim community? What planet do you live on, FD, really?

Does ANY group have recognisable characteristics - or are we all just atoms and the idea of a particular 'community' is just a social construct, as you like to maintain, Hot Breasts?

In which case what makes a "Muslim community". Why don't we stop this stupid charade and treat everyone as individuals REGARDLESS of their socially constructed yet non-existent group identity??

Either they are "Muslims" with all the dreadful baggage that comes with that - or they are individuals with no special pleading about their primitive community customs.

You can't have them as a community when you give them the benefits and treat them as individuals when avoiding the responsibilities, Titts.

It's one or the other both ways.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #28 - Aug 14^th, 2014 at 9:16pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 14^th, 2014 at 7:28pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 14^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

Quote:

I think we need to address is the spread of radical Islam. The alienation of second or even third generation Muslim immigrants is something that attitudes like yours cause and that drives them straight into the arms of the radicals.

So we need to make more of an effort to appease terroristsd in case they blow up busses and we only have ourselves to blame?

No and you know that is not what I mean. You are being deliberately obtuse, FD.

Thats actually true Brian - FD really does know what you mean - because he said pretty much the exact same thing himself:

freediver wrote on Mar 21^st, 2007 at 5:56pm:

What we need to do is stop alienating the entire muslim community and work with them towards the goals we have in common. The more we tar them all with the same brush, the more we push weaker individuals towards extremism.

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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Number 1 wally
Reply #29 - Aug 14^th, 2014 at 9:39pm

Quote:

I am suggesting that you could go some way towards attempting to understand and accept ordinary, everyday, moderate Muslims more and not reject them out of hand merely because they are of that faith. That rejection is what alienates them and drives them into the arms of the fundamentalists, FD.

I do exactly that, every day.

Quote:

No immigrant group is "ideologically opposed to freedom and democracy".

Many Muslims are.

Quote:

Individuals may be but the entire Muslim community?

The Pew society did a pretty good job of asking entire communities, with some rather disturbing results. I stick to asking individuals. I get pretty much the same results.

Quote:

I've never met a Muslim opposed to "freedom and democracy" and I've met a fairly wide cross section.

Yes you have. You were afraid to talk about it with them.

Quote:

You speak as if this is what the majority of Muslims believe.

You really should take a look at that Pew survey.

Quote:

It's also obvious you've never grown up with southern European immigrants

Wogs? I know how you feel Brian.

Quote:

Many of their kids in the 1960s and 70s were tearaways, often in trouble with the law, involved in minor crime, drug dealing, etc., as they rebelled against both their parents and the wider community from which they felt alienated.

Did they set up a southern european state in southern europe where they raped all the women who were the wrong type of wog? Because then you could draw a parallel with ISIS and Muslims, couldn't you? That would be convenient.

Quote:

Perhaps greater funding for community organisations?

Awesome idea. Give Muslims money to stop them being terrorists. Like sit down money. We can call it no-blowing-up-bus money. Maybe they could use it to educate their children, to replace all the federal government funds siphoned off by the AFIC and various other highly respected Muslim community leaders.

Quote:

Greater provision of social services? Help for their parents and their community leaders to shore up their authority? Why not ask the Muslims? I'm sure they could tell you what they need or want.

I think your first answer was best - more money. Who doesn't want that? Has there ever been a problem we couldn't solve with handouts?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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