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Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name (Read 13385 times)
freediver
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #165 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 6:38pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 8:28am:
aquascoot wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 7:45am:
I have a good sense of justice and I think i'm a fair minded person.
if ISIS want to use youtube to promote and glorify their success, I really hope the kurds are able to post some "propaganda ' of their own.
and yes, I have no problems with them posting the effects of a US drone strike on the "losing side"

You see North, what attracts the disaffected youth of Sydney and Brisbane and Bradford and paris to join ISIS is that they seem to be winners.
the west needs to post, in a very matter of fact, non emotional way, propaganda of its own.

disaffected, badly fathered youth are drawn to strength.

these youth will not be drawn to old men in mosques wringing their hands or to david Cameron lexturing them
they understand what winning is and ISIS understand their mentality. western politicians don't.
so you will win them over by showing your toys are better then the ISIS toys.
and , lets face it, THEY ARE.

ISIS are no match for apache gunships and they are about to enter a whole world of pain.
they wont seem so attractive to foreign fighters when they are scurrying off to cellars like scared rabbits  Wink

Psychopathic killing is ultimately self-defeating. Of course ISIS will be defeated, even they know that.

Because ISIS is not about winning... It's about killing.


No they don't. Many Muslims see a glorious Islamic military victory just around the corner. Abu for example genuinely believed the Palestinians were on the verge of defeating Israel. Islam is a cult of supremacy. It knows nothing else.
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freediver
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #166 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 6:45pm
 
Karnal wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 9:40am:
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:15am:
Political Islamism has been in decline for about 8 centuries. What you see recently is not some kind of revival. It is a last gasp.


As has political Christianity. Both religions are responding to modernity. The Islamists are one response. The erection of George W Bush was another. The Arab Spring was another too, and on and on it goes.

We can’t say now it’s a last gasp. You believe Freeedom is on an unstoppable momentum, but this is just the BBC/CNN view of the world. As media becomes more fragmented, we’ll see more extremist groups.

Global power is shifting. East Asia and the Middle East now have their own capital - almost enough to rival the Western financial centres. Hard power hasn’t shifted since the Cold War. Thus we find people taking up the new light weapons themselves - because they can.

There will be no last gasps. We might put down a spotfire in one region, but a new one will start in another. These fires are regional, ethnic, tribal, but they have a narrative that can be sold around the world. Ukrainians have returned to fight the Russians, just as Sunnis have gone to Iraq to fight for ISIS.

The last gasp, if you want, is the end of the Cold War - an edifice that in diplomatic and military terms, has not actually ended. The UN security Council still has all the Cold War players. As Putin has just pointed out, Russia is still one of the largest nuclear powers in the world.

The world needs a new model to respond to global security concerns. Coalitions of Willing powers are not enough. Look what they’ve done in Iraq.


They have gone from the dominant global superpower to a few head hacking extremists trying to recreate the caliphate against the wishes of other Muslims. It was a slow decline, but it shows no signs of stopping. A few spotfires is a symptom of this, not a sign that something has changed. I am not saying the spotfires will be completely over any time soon, but as a global military force it was already entirely spent a century ago.
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #167 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 6:48pm
 
red baron wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 6:36pm:
Let's cut through the crud shall we? ISIS is committing Genocide.

Forget about all the religious palaver here. Forget the lofty ideals,, the words, the smokescreens, ISIS is committing  GENOCIDE!!

Am I getting through to all the professors of religion out there?


Bloody oath. We agree.
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #168 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 6:53pm
 
Quote:
The Iraqi government can't do it. Their Sunni solidiers put down their weapons. An army of Shi'a soldiers would just create a new regional conflict. The winner? Iran. The Kurds can't do it - with who's army? Who's weapons?


Air support will give them a vital edge and make it impossible for ISIS to hold together anything resembling a conventional army. We are going to provide the Kurds with weapons too, apparently. No doubt we will get blamed for some Kurdish monster in 20 years time, but they won't get slaughtered today.

Quote:
Are you participating in Francis Fukuyama's Nostradamus Award this year?


Just stating the obvious.

I see ISIS as an opportunity for all those "normal" Muslims that Gandalf et all insist are out there to take ownership of Islam, democracy and freedom in Iraq. They will suddenly realise that it is not the unbearable burden from the great Satan they once thought it was.



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Karnal
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #169 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 7:19pm
 
You don’t take ownership of demokracy and Freeeedom in a civil war, FD. This is the last thing you do.

You sieze control of the government, military and media, and you bludgeon the other side into capitulation. Saddam did it, Uncle did it, Al Malaki did it, and every side who wins a conflict does it, the world over. It’s why we get a trickle of the world’s refugees floating our way - they’re usually from the other side.

There will be no Freeedom and demokracy in Iraq any time soon, as everybody knows.
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #170 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 6:40am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 6:38pm:
No they don't. Many Muslims see a glorious Islamic military victory just around the corner. Abu for example genuinely believed the Palestinians were on the verge of defeating Israel. Islam is a cult of supremacy. It knows nothing else.

Those who imagine victory do so with the mindless psychopathy of Nazis post 42/43... The point to IS psychopathy is the extermination of religious 'apostates' and non-Muslims in exactly the same way that the point to Nazist psychopathy was the extermination of cultural and racial 'untermenschen'.

In the end, the point, for Nazists, was the continued execution of the final solution... Exactly the same as IS... Victory is not possible but it will be enough for them to have murdered as many as possible before they are ended.


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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #171 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 6:55am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 6:53pm:
No doubt we will get blamed for some Kurdish monster in 20 years time

A possibility if the Kurds are cynically exploited by the west or, once again in their modern history, betrayed by the west...

Let's hope their obvious commitment to building a modern democratic state is honoured by us all.
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #172 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 7:50am
 
ISIS will be beaten back to Syria.
they are no match for drones and the locals now realise surrender to them is somewhat futile which should stiffen resistance.

What to do when they are in Syria though?

no ground forces there to drop weapons to.

maybe the Iranians and the jews can form a coalition of the willing Wink
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #173 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 8:18am
 
Once they are back in Syria I believe they will be hunted down and ripped apart as the Syrian Government gets unheard of support.
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #174 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 10:09am
 
red baron wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 8:18am:
Once they are back in Syria I believe they will be hunted down and ripped apart as the Syrian Government gets unheard of support.


Interesting, isn't it? Now the Al Assad regime are the good guys.

Ah, the shifting sands of Musel politics.
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #175 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 11:51am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 6:53pm:
Air support will give them a vital edge and make it impossible for ISIS to hold together anything resembling a conventional army. We are going to provide the Kurds with weapons too, apparently.


The end game has to be to protect Kurdish Iraq - thats really the only viable military intervention the west can do.

The reality is IS is now pretty much hemmed in from all sides - Iraqi shiites will keep them from advancing any further south, the Syrian army will hold them at bay to the west and now the Kurds will stifle their northern advance. What they are left holding, while impressive looking on a map, is in reality mostly empty desert. With the right strategy they can be starved out of existence.

Then pressure can be applied to the new Iraqi government - with Maliki gone, the international community has a fresh chance to pressure Baghdad to facilitate a more inclusive government that will get the sunni tribal leaders onside. This can be done in concert with the US reestablishing links with their old "sons of Iraq" contacts, who were so instrumental in kicking out Al Qaeda in Iraq a few years back.

Karnal raised the most pertinent point - the gung ho, all guns blazing approach to IS will almost certainly create a different and potentially worse sort of conflict. The strategy must be to firstly contain IS's advances, then isolate them and let them simply implode on themselves in the desert.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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aquascoot
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #176 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 7:20pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 11:51am:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 6:53pm:
Air support will give them a vital edge and make it impossible for ISIS to hold together anything resembling a conventional army. We are going to provide the Kurds with weapons too, apparently.


The end game has to be to protect Kurdish Iraq - thats really the only viable military intervention the west can do.

The reality is IS is now pretty much hemmed in from all sides - Iraqi shiites will keep them from advancing any further south, the Syrian army will hold them at bay to the west and now the Kurds will stifle their northern advance. What they are left holding, while impressive looking on a map, is in reality mostly empty desert. With the right strategy they can be starved out of existence.

Then pressure can be applied to the new Iraqi government - with Maliki gone, the international community has a fresh chance to pressure Baghdad to facilitate a more inclusive government that will get the sunni tribal leaders onside. This can be done in concert with the US reestablishing links with their old "sons of Iraq" contacts, who were so instrumental in kicking out Al Qaeda in Iraq a few years back.

Karnal raised the most pertinent point - the gung ho, all guns blazing approach to IS will almost certainly create a different and potentially worse sort of conflict. The strategy must be to firstly contain IS's advances, then isolate them and let them simply implode on themselves in the desert.



that seems a good strategy, but surely once we isolate them we can have a reality TV show where you get to fire drone rockets at them.
its such a target rich environment.  and then the winning contestants could get to fly in by chopper and hold up charred ISIS heads for youtube.
i think it would rate well,  especially in lakemba
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Re: Islamic State - A 'Nazist Reich' in all but name
Reply #177 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 9:21pm
 
Meanwhile, reports of an intercepted computer revealing IS are researching biological weapons and have sought a religious sanction to use them to slaughter civilians:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11064133/Islamic-State...

Quote:
ISIL terrorists in Syria and Iraq have carried out research into the production of biological weapons, compiling a manual of how to make a device and sharing a religious edict that sanctions the use of weapons of mass destruction against civilians.

The computer seized from a Tunisian chemistry student contained a 19-page manual to learn how to turn the bubonic plague into a weapon of war. The text boasts that biological and chemical weapons are a highly effective means of targeting enemy populations, according to the Arab television channel al-Aan, which obtained the computer from a Syria rebel group.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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