Australian Politics Forum - ISIS is a Zionist plot

Karnal

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Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Reply #180 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 8:52pm

Soren wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 6:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 6:41pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 21^st, 2007 at 5:56pm:

What we need to do is stop alienating the entire muslim community and work with them towards the goals we have in common. The more we tar them all with the same brush, the more we push weaker individuals towards extremism.

FD, I remember you used to argue with me about this sort of thing.

WHen did the scales fall from your eyes?

FD changed his mind.

No more questions, thanks.

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Soren

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Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Reply #181 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 8:58pm

GAndy,
Muslims stand up to oppression in order to impose their owns requirement for submission. They are not standing up for human freedom and dignity. They are standing up to demand submission.
Why would you even think that people do not realise that you are fudging ( if not oovertly trying to pack fudge with PB and Brain etc).

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« Last Edit: Sep 5^th, 2014 at 9:11pm by Soren »

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Yadda

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Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Reply #182 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 9:21pm

Soren wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 8:58pm:

GAndy,
Muslims stand up to oppression in order to impose their owns requirement for submission. They are not standing up for human freedom and dignity.

They are standing up to demand submission.

Why would you even think that people do not realise that you are fudging ( if not oovertly trying to pack fudge with PB and Brain etc).

They are standing up to demand submission.

They are standing up, soley to impose submission ['ISLAM'], upon others.

as per, ISIS, in Syria and Iraq today.

Moslems always denigrate any idea/political system which is un-ISLAMIC as being some form of rule/oppression by non-moslems.

Truth doesn't come into it, when a moslem scrutinises ISLAM and ISLAM's systems of rule - over a society.

But moslems will never acknowledge that oppression is the only way in which ISLAM itself and ISLAM's systems of rule, can rule over others [even fellow moslems].

ISLAM = = oppression and injustice,
.....but a moslem can never bring himself to acknowledge the truth of that circumstance, because to do so, would be to accede to the imperfections within the systems of rule of ISLAM.

Yadda said.....
Quote:

In 'promoting' ISLAM to the whole earth, all REAL moslems understand, that terror is BOTH, the objective, and the method!

i.e.
#1,
ISLAMIC authority [government] is gained legitimately through the use of terror.

#2,
And, it is legitimate to maintain ISLAMIC authority through the use of terror.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver

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Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Reply #183 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 9:28pm

Quote:

Such as?

Gay pride. Reclaim the night. What do you think the Sydney mardis gras is? A Greens rally?

Quote:

Oh I know FD. You yourself described public statements by muslim leaders condemning violence and extremism as a sinister tactic to "bide their time" to ensure the inevitable islamic takeover was done properly.

Like the British Imam who responded to 9/11 by saying it was wrong to kill innocents, then told his congregation in Arabic that only Muslims are innocent. Even Abu made laid out this strategy. Apparently it is somehow unIslamic to go on the offensive from a position of weakness. You bide your time until you are in a position of strength. Muhammed himself was all peace and love until he was in a position to start the head hacking.

Quote:

Its foolproof - we either ignore what they say and pretend they don't say anything, or we don't ignore it and brand their words as taqiyya.

Words are merely the beginning Gandalf. If you expect that telling people what they want to to hear is all it takes to make people ignore the link between islam and terrorism you are just naive. You are right that they will be painted as falling short either way, because they are.

Quote:

And we'll damn well ensure it stays that way!

Muslims will make sure it stays that way, because Islam compels them to. ISIS is no grand conspiracy. It is Muslims doing what Muhammed did. It is not 'us' making Islam look bad. It is Muslims. There is a limit to how much victimhood you can claim on behalf of Islam. Islam does not look bad because we are putting a negative spin on ISIS. Islam looks bad because ISIS really are old school Islamic head hackers.

Quote:

FD, I remember you used to argue with me about this sort of thing.
WHen did the scales fall from your eyes?

When I started talking to Muslims about it.

Quote:

Like I said, it makes no sense for this minority to march down the street chanting "Hey! We agree with you [the dominant group] - ISIS sux!!"

Just like it makes no sense for catholics to speak out against pedophile priests? That is what people do Gandalf. If Muslims could do the same thing, it would not take them centuries of misery and slaughter to shake off the lunatics.

Quote:

But if you're talking about muslims in muslim-majority nations, perhaps the whole arab spring thing skipped your attention.

When the Arab spring sprung, Abu predicted it would give birth to something like ISIS. We all thought his goose was cooked and the Muslims were finally joining the civilised world. I think you were even around at the time. Now look who got it right. Without western interference, they would be marching on Baghdad and within a lifetime would probably have the same territory Muhammed obtained.

Quote:

But while its really classy and all of you to mock muslims for fighting and dying for freedom - it was kinda my point I was making to Soren - that muslims can and do stand up against oppression by their own people.

They stand up against the wrong flavour of oppression.

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« Last Edit: Sep 5^th, 2014 at 9:33pm by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal

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Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Reply #184 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 9:33pm

Soren wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 8:58pm:

GAndy,
Muslims stand up to oppression in order to impose their owns requirement for submission. They are not standing up for human freedom and dignity. They are standing up to demand submission.
Why would you even think that people do not realise that you are fudging ( if not oovertly trying to pack fudge with PB and Brain etc).

I say, old chap, I do feel that what we do in the privacy of the hydro-therapy pool should be kept between the two of us.

And it’s not oppression either.

It’s a form of love.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Reply #185 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 9:59pm

freediver wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Gay pride. Reclaim the night. What do you think the Sydney mardis gras is? A Greens rally?

ummm you mean a minority who is standing up for their minority rights against hostility and bigotry from the dominant culture? Yes FD, I believe that was my point.

freediver wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Just like it makes no sense for catholics to speak out against pedophile priests? That is what people do Gandalf. If Muslims could do the same thing,

They do do the same thing FD. Catholics don't go marching down the street to show their condemnation for pedophile priests either. Thats what we're talking about remember - marching down the street? As for "speaking out", both muslims and catholics speak out, but why are you even suggesting that is even relevant? You just reaffirmed in this very post my point that speaking out makes no difference to you anyway. Just like when they march against terrorism (which they do constantly), you'll find some reason to mock them. There literally isn't anything they could do is there?

freediver wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 9:28pm:

They stand up against the wrong flavour of oppression.

In Egypt they stood up against both the secular military and the islamists - causing both regimes to fall.

In Syria the bulk of the population has remained steadfast in their support for Assad's fight against the islamist terrorists.

There's the two most important arab spring cases proving you wrong. You might want to rethink your 'argument by catchprhase' technique.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Reply #186 - Sep 6^th, 2014 at 8:09am

Quote:

ummm you mean a minority who is standing up for their minority rights against hostility and bigotry from the dominant culture? Yes FD, I believe that was my point.

Why didn't you just say that? Instead of this:

Quote:

Because thats not what street protests are about. People don't organise protests just to make people like you feel better, or to submit to your blackmail. Protests are directed at the host nation's government, to pressure it to take a particular policy direction.

Quote:

They do do the same thing FD. Catholics don't go marching down the street to show their condemnation for pedophile priests either. Thats what we're talking about remember - marching down the street?

I thought we were talking about ISIS.

Quote:

You just reaffirmed in this very post my point that speaking out makes no difference to you anyway.

I have explained this a few times. The more Muslims speak out, the less they will be criticised for not speaking out. The more they actually reign in extremists, the less they will be criticised for failing to do so. There is no magic number, and you can not expect a few nice words to undo the harm that ISIS is doing. You are not a victim here.

Quote:

There literally isn't anything they could do is there?

There are currently about 100 Australians overseas fighting for various terrorist groups. They could prevent this number growing, and work with Authorities to determine what is going on with the ones who are already over there. Unfortunately not all of them post head hacking photos on facebook. They could also get on board with the global movement to destroy ISIS, rather than using it as yet another opportunity to blame the west for everything.

Quote:

There's the two most important arab spring cases proving you wrong.

You are using Syria to counter my claim about ISIS?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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cods

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Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Reply #187 - Sep 6^th, 2014 at 9:03am

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 8:33pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 7:56pm:

Oh, do tell us, which moslem nation was it, in your opinion, which was most improved by the
"arab spring thing"
?

Was it Yemen ?

Or was it Libya ?

Or Egypt ?

Or Tunisia? Funny how you left that one out Y.

Egypt is in a far better position freedom wise now than they were before the revolution started. Also Yemen is undoubtedly better too. Libya went from richest and best educated per capita in the whole of Africa, to failed state shithole - courtesy of the French and Qatari imperialist project.

But while its really classy and all of you to mock muslims for fighting and dying for freedom - it was kinda my point I was making to Soren - that muslims can and do stand up against oppression by their own people.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/06/the-conflict-in-the-middle-east...

what freedom are you talking about? not the same one we have I presume.

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Soren

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Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Reply #188 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:08pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 8:33pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 7:56pm:

Oh, do tell us, which moslem nation was it, in your opinion, which was most improved by the
"arab spring thing"
?

Was it Yemen ?

Or was it Libya ?

Or Egypt ?

Or Tunisia? Funny how you left that one out Y.

Egypt is in a far better position freedom wise now than they were before the revolution started. Also Yemen is undoubtedly better too. Libya went from richest and best educated per capita in the whole of Africa, to failed state shithole - courtesy of the French and Qatari imperialist project.

But while its really classy and all of you to mock musliiims for fighting and dying for freedom - it was kinda my point I was making to Soren - that muslims can and do stand up against oppression by their own people.

I have only seen Muslims stand up for the right to submit to unfreedom.
They are fighting for the caliphate of Submission as we speak. Muslim freedom means jihad for sharia. There is NO Muslim force for freedom.

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Soren

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Re: ISIS is a Zionist plot - says a moslem woman who..
Reply #189 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:08pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 8:33pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 7:56pm:

Oh, do tell us, which moslem nation was it, in your opinion, which was most improved by the
"arab spring thing"
?

Was it Yemen ?

Or was it Libya ?

Or Egypt ?

Or Tunisia? Funny how you left that one out Y.

Egypt is in a far better position freedom wise now than they were before the revolution started. Also Yemen is undoubtedly better too. Libya went from richest and best educated per capita in the whole of Africa, to failed state shithole - courtesy of the French and Qatari imperialist project.

But while its really classy and all of you to mock musliiims for fighting and dying for freedom - it was kinda my point I was making to Soren - that muslims can and do stand up against oppression by their own people.

I have only seen Muslims stand up for the right to submit to unfreedom.
They are fighting for the caliphate of Submission as we speak. Muslim freedom means jihad for sharia. There is NO Muslim force for freedom.

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