aquascoot wrote on Sep 16^th, 2014 at 7:11am:



The Inquisition knew what to do:

they would have burnt them all at the stake.

Waiting for Great Britain to get really serious about ISIS.

David Cameron needs to suck it up and get Britain involved on a scale of which it is capable. It is all on the line in the Middle East and the sooner Cameron stops worrying about Muslim votes and starts taking care of business the better.

We've heard him tub thumping about binging the killer of David  Haines to Justice but what about the big picture Cameron? What are you going to do about the wholesale genocide ISIS is carrying out?

red baron wrote on Sep 16^th, 2014 at 7:40am:


You've nagged the Yanks and Australians into this, and now you're working on the Poms.

And you still don't have a plan for what you want military intervention to achieve - other than more endless war.

Apart from a convenient excuse for having no details, what exactly is the big picture you want David Cameron to articulate?

Based on yesterdays doorstops with Abbott and Hockey, the Libs seem to be moving on from "defending Western values and our US alliance" to "humanitarian support".

The Libs haven't said how they will provide this support. What they have done, however, is put about 300 troops back into Iraq - with no exit strategy.

So what, exactly, do you want the western powers to achieve, Red? When should we get out of this mess - a mess we created in 2003? What objectives are we going in to achieve? What do we want to see happen?

This is a question for you, Red, based on your support for our involvement. Please feel free to respond.

aquascoot wrote on Sep 16^th, 2014 at 7:11am:


That's not what everyone from Julie Bishop to the White House are saying. ISIS WILL keep going for long, because they'll simply go back to Syria and wait us out.

That means any intervention - military or otherwise - must resolve the Syrian Civil War. But alas, no one's made a decision yet on who they want to win. Ousting Assad should be pretty easy for an Iraq-style coalition, but Russia won't support this in the UN, as they showed last time.

This can only mean one thing: another illegal invasion of Syria, which would mean Obama going back on every statement he's ever made on the invasion of Iraq, US foreign policy, and the use of the US military in general.

At present, that's impossible, which can only mean the reverse: the US will support the Assad regime oust ISIL, Al Nusra, and every other terrorist unit fighting the Syrian civil war. This solution, of course, means going back on the old Axis of Evil line. And there goes the whole idealist foreign policy agenda championed so shamelessly by the neo-cons.

We might as well support North Korea next.

You can't just fight ISIL a little bit. Boots on the ground in Iraq mean boots on the ground in Syria - and this means solving the Syrian civil war in a way that somehow saves face for Uncle.

Whatever the long-term strategy turns out to be, one thing is certain: ISIL will keep going, and we're in this one for the long haul. No matter how it pans out, everyone's going to come out with blood on their hands, and it won't be pretty.

And this is what you get when you go in without a plan.

Karnal, I'm delighted to answer your invitation to respond.

There is something happening in Iraq called a Genocide. ISIS is butchering anyone Moslem or Christian that will not adhere to their idea of being as 'proper' Muslim. They have already carried out a genocide on a large scale.

You are correct in stating that we the West had a lot to do with ISIS starting because the Middle East was left in a power vacuum after the Iraqi War.


Because we the West are in a very big way responsible for the circumstances that allowed ISIS to grow, we need to go and fix up the genetic mutation that is ISIS.

If we don't ISIS could very well grow into some sort of monolith whose base values, are butchery on a grand scale.

Therefore we need to go and smash ISIS into Kingdom Come, the last thing we need or the Muslims for that matter is a modern day version of the Nazis.

This time we shouldn't leave until stability of a reasonable form is entrenched. Not an easy job with the Middle East I admit but ISIS simply can't be allowed to flourish. If we do, eventually it will be at our peril.

red baron wrote on Sep 16^th, 2014 at 7:40am:


Great Britain has had SF in Syria and Northern Iraq for months. It has also been flying sorties out of Cyprus also for months.

Get your facts right before flapping your tongue!

red baron wrote on Sep 16^th, 2014 at 2:13pm:


Yeas...we can't have our boys going to foreign places to fight, being brutalised by War, become adept at its execution and then returning here.....that'd be just awful!  I can't imagine that ever being allowed.

red baron wrote on Sep 16^th, 2014 at 2:59pm:


That's just rubbish.  People get killed in a civil war, and that is what this is.....a War within parts of the ME.....Arab -v- Arab, a civil War (like the Yanks had and there was genocide or subjugation of the other on the mind of both sides) in which we have zero national interest, or interest by Treaty and/or UN sanction.

I know its not a new line, but a close mate of mine who was (now retired) a dyed in the wool diplomat who was Australia's Rep at the UN at one time in his career today agreed with my POV, and he added....(the not new line)..."This will end in tears."