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moses

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Re: islamic
Reply #120 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 3:53pm

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

It would have very much depended upon the individual, Moses. According to Christopher Browning in his book, Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland, liberal use of alcohol and drugs was required to help the men carry out their orders to massacre and kill Jews and others in Poland. Nervous breakdowns were not uncommon either apparently. Some came so desensitised they came to relish their duties but they were in the minority apparently.

So what? The facts are that atrocities became part of the nazi agenda, they were carried out.

Terrorism, torture and mass murder are part of the past and present schedule of: islam, allah, muhammad, qur'an and hadith.

Islamic atrocities were carried out in the past, they are being carried out now today 2014.

Anyone who refuses to condemn these commands, teachings and verses which condone and glorify terrorism, torture and mass murder, are giving moral support to isis

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moses

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Re: islamic
Reply #121 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:12pm

Karnal wrote: Quote:

Except that Muslims and their apologists hate ISIL too. A number have volunteered to fight.

You, on the other hand, say that Muslims are prepared to wage a ground war against ISIS, but similtaneously support them.

Who’s going to fall for that?

Factional hate and murder are part and parcel of islam.

All islamic factions believe in the commands, teachings and verses which condone and glorify terrorism, torture and mass murder, by muslims. They simply apply the relevant commands and teachings etc. to their own personal viewpoint.

There is not one muslim who will declare these commands and teachings as being wrong, evil and totally irrelevant in the 21st century.

Whether they like it or lump it, muslims and their apologists are giving moral support to islamic terrorists, torturers and mass murderers (of all factions), by their failure to denigrate the religious root cause of said atrocities.

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« Last Edit: Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:21pm by moses »

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polite_gandalf

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Re: islamic
Reply #122 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:28pm

moses wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:12pm:

There is not one muslim who will declare these commands and teachings as being wrong, evil and totally irrelevant in the 21st century.

Don't be stupid.

Said Keyser Trad:

“They have nothing to do with Islam,” he said. “No matter what they proclaim.”

“There is nothing holy about that war… Muslim leaders from all around the world have condemned that group as being a brutal bunch of thugs and murderers.”

“We should not give them labels they enjoy, we should just label them as brutal thugs and murderers – and this is what they are.”

“This group is not representative of Islam, they have nothing to do with Islam, they are just after their own political agenda,” Trad continued. “They are now using children which is very shocking and appalling… and deserves every condemnation.”

http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/does-isis-represent-islam/

We know your agenda is unflappable moses, but at the very least try not to perpetuate such blatant lies.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: islamic
Reply #123 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:34pm

moses wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:12pm:

Karnal wrote: Quote:

Except that Muslims and their apologists hate ISIL too. A number have volunteered to fight.

You, on the other hand, say that Muslims are prepared to wage a ground war against ISIS, but similtaneously support them.

Who’s going to fall for that?

Factional hate and murder are part and parcel of islam.

All islamic factions believe in the commands, teachings and verses which condone and glorify terrorism, torture and mass murder, by muslims. .

No they don’t. But back to our WWII analogy, all German people believe they have German blood.

Given they’re still at large, don’t you think they should be held responsible for WWII?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: islamic
Reply #124 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:50pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:34pm:

No they don’t.

Oh but they do K - the trick is to simply discard any of the factions that don't believe in terrorism as "non-islamic".

Sufi mystics? don't exist

Bediüzzaman movement? nuffin to do with islam

followers of the influential spiritual leader Wahiduddin Khan? nuffin to do with nuffin

See? Simple.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: islamic
Reply #125 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 5:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 11:09pm:

Normally I would also ask FD for the source of the 10k figure - but he'll probably just reply that its either deferring to common sense or stating the bleeding obvious. Either that or pull out some bizarre, non-sensical quip about checking the receipts or something.

See the wikipedia page. It doesn't spell it out, but for the first few years, before they were even on the radar, it was at least 1000 per year.

Quote:

Except that Muslims and their apologists hate ISIL too.

Obviously not all of them.

Quote:

No they don’t. But back to our WWII analogy, all German people believe they have German blood.

Given they’re still at large, don’t you think they should be held responsible for WWII?

It was Nazism that was the problem Karnal. Once they dropped the oppressive ideology, the people were tolerable.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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cods

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Re: islamic
Reply #126 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 6:09pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:28pm:

moses wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:12pm:

There is not one muslim who will declare these commands and teachings as being wrong, evil and totally irrelevant in the 21st century.

Don't be stupid.

Said Keyser Trad:

“They have nothing to do with Islam,” he said. “No matter what they proclaim.”

“There is nothing holy about that war… Muslim leaders from all around the world have condemned that group as being a brutal bunch of thugs and murderers.”

“We should not give them labels they enjoy, we should just label them as brutal thugs and murderers – and this is what they are.”

“This group is not representative of Islam, they have nothing to do with Islam, they are just after their own political agenda,” Trad continued. “They are now using children which is very shocking and appalling… and deserves every condemnation.”

http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/does-isis-represent-islam/

We know your agenda is unflappable moses, but at the very least try not to perpetuate such blatant lies.

that is all very well gandalf... but the ISIS run under the flag of ISLAMIC STATE.... IS stands for that...it is hard for anyone to disassociate Islam from this ISLAMIC STATE war...

no offence meant by this.. but I have seen Mulsims burning the AMerican and Australian flags..

but so far not an ISIS one..

words are cheap..

at the end of the day....we can all blah blah whilst turning a blind eye...

maybe I am expecting too much...but it would be good all round if those good Muslims living a good life in this country....showed it..

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Karnal

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Re: islamic
Reply #127 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 6:26pm

cods wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 6:09pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:28pm:

moses wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:12pm:

There is not one muslim who will declare these commands and teachings as being wrong, evil and totally irrelevant in the 21st century.

Don't be stupid.

Said Keyser Trad:

“They have nothing to do with Islam,” he said. “No matter what they proclaim.”

“There is nothing holy about that war… Muslim leaders from all around the world have condemned that group as being a brutal bunch of thugs and murderers.”

“We should not give them labels they enjoy, we should just label them as brutal thugs and murderers – and this is what they are.”

“This group is not representative of Islam, they have nothing to do with Islam, they are just after their own political agenda,” Trad continued. “They are now using children which is very shocking and appalling… and deserves every condemnation.”

http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/does-isis-represent-islam/

We know your agenda is unflappable moses, but at the very least try not to perpetuate such blatant lies.

that is all very well gandalf... but the ISIS run under the flag of ISLAMIC STATE.... IS stands for that...it is hard for anyone to disassociate Islam from this ISLAMIC STATE war...

no offence meant by this.. but I have seen Mulsims burning the AMerican and Australian flags..

but so far not an ISIS one..

words are cheap..

at the end of the day....we can all blah blah whilst turning a blind eye...

maybe I am expecting too much...but it would be good all round if those good Muslims living a good life in this country....showed it..

I agree, dear. Working and shopping and going about their lives is clearly not enough.

Perhaps they should be more like the cheeseaters and New Zealanders and Pommy blow-ins and spend their days on this site complaining about everybody else.

No offense, dear.

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Karnal

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Re: islamic
Reply #128 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 6:30pm

freediver wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 5:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 11:09pm:

Normally I would also ask FD for the source of the 10k figure - but he'll probably just reply that its either deferring to common sense or stating the bleeding obvious. Either that or pull out some bizarre, non-sensical quip about checking the receipts or something.

See the wikipedia page. It doesn't spell it out, but for the first few years, before they were even on the radar, it was at least 1000 per year.

Quote:

Except that Muslims and their apologists hate ISIL too.

Obviously not all of them.

Quote:

No they don’t. But back to our WWII analogy, all German people believe they have German blood.

Given they’re still at large, don’t you think they should be held responsible for WWII?

It was Nazism that was the problem Karnal. Once they dropped the oppressive ideology, the people were tolerable.

Oh, I agree. To you and I, it makes perfect sense. Moses isn’t quite there yet though.

I think he’s a disciple of the old boy’s correlation-not-causation school of eugenics.

I wonder if he studied at the prestigious University of Balogney.

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Yadda

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Re: islamic
Reply #129 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 6:54pm

Quote:

Said Keyser Trad:

“They [ISIS] have nothing to do with Islam,” he said. “No matter what they proclaim.”

“There is nothing holy about that war… Muslim leaders from all around the world have condemned that group as being a brutal bunch of thugs and murderers.”

“We should not give them labels they enjoy, we should just label them as brutal thugs and murderers – and this is what they are.”

“This group is not representative of Islam, they have nothing to do with Islam, they are just after their own political agenda,” Trad continued. “They are now using children which is very shocking and appalling… and deserves every condemnation.”

http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/does-isis-represent-islam/

What a crock,

from Trad, a moslem dissembler.

Google;
Taqiyya .....as K would say.

Quote:

Jordanian politician: Islamic State’s “doctrine stems from the Qur’an and Sunnah”… “There is no such thing as ‘ISIS ideology’ — it’s Islam”
Sep 10, 2014

Wherever Muhammad Bayoudh Al-Tamimi is located, he should expect a knock on his door, and Barack Obama, David Cameron, Philip Hammond, Yvette Cooper, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Rev. Professor David Thomas, and a host of other non-Muslims to walk in and explain to him that he is misunderstanding Islam, and that the Islamic State has nothing whatsoever to do with the genuine article.

.....There needs to be a public discussion about this dichotomy and how it came about, and whose position is better represented among Muslim populations worldwide, as well as in light of Islamic tradition, theology and law. But that would require some honesty and balance in the public square, which doesn’t appear to be on the horizon.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/09/jordanian-politician-islamic-states-doctrine-s...

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« Last Edit: Sep 12^th, 2014 at 7:02pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross

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Re: islamic
Reply #130 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 7:28pm

Soren wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 1:19am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 12:37am:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 9:06pm:

Quote:

It would have very much depended upon the individual, Moses. According to Christopher Browning in his book, Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland, liberal use of alcohol and drugs was required to help the men carry out their orders to massacre and kill Jews and others in Poland.

ISIS bans alcohol and drugs. They use religion instead.

So? So have Christians when committing Genocide... Roll Eyes

So in what way does that excuse Muslims?

I didn't claim it did, Soren. However, it goes some way in making you aware that Muslims are not unique in allowing themselves to be manipulated through their religious beliefs, which some seem to think. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49241 At my desk.	Re: islamic Reply #131 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 7:29pm Who is doing this manipulating Brian?
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Brian Ross

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Re: islamic
Reply #132 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 7:44pm

freediver wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 7:29pm:

Who is doing this manipulating Brian?

Those that seek to gain power over their fellow Muslims, perhaps? Roll Eyes

I don't think it's necessarily any grand conspiracy, if that is what you're fishing for, FD. I think it's just normal, plain old, lust for power of the sort that history is full of. Be it George W. Bush and Dick Cheney or Christopher Pyne, there are numerous examples out there, Muslim and non-Muslim, FD.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49241 At my desk.	Re: islamic Reply #133 - Sep 12^th, 2014 at 8:31pm Quote: Be it George W. Bush and Dick Cheney or Christopher Pyne, there are numerous examples out there, Muslim and non-Muslim, FD. Is Muhammed an example?
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Brian Ross

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Re: islamic
Reply #134 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 12:25am

moses wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 3:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

It would have very much depended upon the individual, Moses. According to Christopher Browning in his book, Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland, liberal use of alcohol and drugs was required to help the men carry out their orders to massacre and kill Jews and others in Poland. Nervous breakdowns were not uncommon either apparently. Some came so desensitised they came to relish their duties but they were in the minority apparently.

So what? The facts are that atrocities became part of the nazi agenda, they were carried out.

No denying that, Moses. However, you miss the point - ordinary men took considerable effort to insulate themselves from doing them. They had to self-medicate to make it bearable.

Quote:

Terrorism, torture and mass murder are part of the past and present schedule of: islam, allah, muhammad, qur'an and hadith.

Islamic atrocities were carried out in the past, they are being carried out now today 2014.

Which religious group recently was using water-boarding to torture members of the other religious group? Muslims or Christians? Where is the Christian condemnation of that, I ask? Appears to me there are plenty of naughty Christians out there, doing naughty things. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Anyone who refuses to condemn these commands, teachings and verses which condone and glorify terrorism, torture and mass murder, are giving moral support to isis

Deuteronomy 17:2-5 you going to condemn that verse in The Bible, Moses? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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