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Brian Ross

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Re: islamic
Reply #135 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 12:28am

freediver wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 8:31pm:

Quote:

Be it George W. Bush and Dick Cheney or Christopher Pyne, there are numerous examples out there, Muslim and non-Muslim, FD.

Is Muhammed an example?

Some may consider him thus. Tell me, is John Smith an example? Would the Popes be examples, FD? As I said, history is replete with them. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: islamic
Reply #136 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 12:20pm

FBrian Ross wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 7:44pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 7:29pm:

Who is doing this manipulating Brian?

Those that seek to gain power over their fellow Muslims, perhaps? Roll Eyes

I don't think it's necessarily any grand conspiracy, if that is what you're fishing for, FD. I think it's just normal, plain old, lust for power of the sort that history is full of. Be it George W. Bush and Dick Cheney or Christopher Pyne, there are numerous examples out there, Muslim and non-Muslim, FD.

Everyone wants power, Brain. Things get done only by applying power.
The question is - what do people want to achieve?
Caliphate, sharia, submission - or freedom, dignity, knowledge, art, prosperity, happiness.

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moses

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Re: islamic
Reply #137 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 4:04pm

Gandalf
Quote:

Quote:

moses wrote:There is not one muslim who will declare these commands and teachings as being wrong, evil and totally irrelevant in the 21st century.

Quote:

gandalf wrote:

Don't be stupid.

Said Keyser Trad:

“They have nothing to do with Islam,” he said. “No matter what they proclaim.”

“There is nothing holy about that war… Muslim leaders from all around the world have condemned that group as being a brutal bunch of thugs and murderers.”

“We should not give them labels they enjoy, we should just label them as brutal thugs and murderers – and this is what they are.”

“This group is not representative of Islam, they have nothing to do with Islam, they are just after their own political agenda,” Trad continued. “They are now using children which is very shocking and appalling… and deserves every condemnation.”

http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/does-isis-represent-islam/

We know your agenda is unflappable moses, but at the very least try not to perpetuate such blatant lies.

Where did he declare as being wrong, evil and totally irrelevant in the 21st century, the commands from allah, the teachings of muhammad, the verses in the qur'an and hadi'th, which unequivocally dictate, condone and glorify terrorism, torture and mass murder?

He didn't.

Until muslims and their apologists unambiguously condemn the commands, teachings and verses which doctrinally urge, excuse and exalt the very atrocities isis are committing, you are all supporters of islamic inhumane heinousness, no matter which muslim faction is carrying out the atrocities.

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moses

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Re: islamic
Reply #138 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 4:05pm

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

No they don’t.

&

But back to our WWII analogy, all German people believe they have German blood.

Given they’re still at large, don’t you think they should be held responsible for WWII?

Yes muslims do believe every command from allah, every teaching from muhammad, every verse in the qur'an and hadi'th, if they didn't they would have no trouble denouncing them as: being wrong, evil and completely irrelevant in the 21st century.

On the subject of the Germans do they all still have the exact same convictions as the WW2 Germans?

I believe they have a totally different point of view today 2014.

muslims don't, their beliefs are still in the 7th century era of muhammad and all the associated teachings of islamic evil.

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moses

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Re: islamic
Reply #139 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 4:07pm

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

No denying that, Moses. However, you miss the point - ordinary men took considerable effort to insulate themselves from doing them. They had to self-medicate to make it bearable.

What has that got to do with the fact that atrocities are urged, exempted and glorified, by the evil totality of allah, muhammad, qur'an and hadi'th?

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Which religious group recently was using water-boarding to torture members of the other religious group? Muslims or Christians? Where is the Christian condemnation of that, I ask? Appears to me there are plenty of naughty Christians out there, doing naughty things

Prove that those responsible were Christian. I believe that the U.S.A. is secular.

I have no idea what all their beliefs are, do you?

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Deuteronomy 17:2-5 you going to condemn that verse in The Bible, Moses?

Done, 2014 years ago by the Saviour and original founders of Christianity: Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: islamic Reply #140 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 4:18pm Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. Romans 13:8
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Brian Ross

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Re: islamic
Reply #141 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 5:11pm

moses wrote on Sep 13^th, 2014 at 4:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

No denying that, Moses. However, you miss the point - ordinary men took considerable effort to insulate themselves from doing them. They had to self-medicate to make it bearable.

What has that got to do with the fact that atrocities are urged, exempted and glorified, by the evil totality of allah, muhammad, qur'an and hadi'th?

It refutes the original claim that you made that;
moses wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 3:18pm:

Men who followed and believed in hitler had no problems at all, in performing the barbaric inhumanities carried out by nazis 60 years ago.

Which is what I was correcting, Moses. I showed you a reference that proves that "ordinary men" had real problems in, " performing the barbaric inhumanities carried out by nazis[sic] 60 years ago."

Quote:

Quote:

Which religious group recently was using water-boarding to torture members of the other religious group? Muslims or Christians? Where is the Christian condemnation of that, I ask? Appears to me there are plenty of naughty Christians out there, doing naughty things

Prove that those responsible were Christian. I believe that the U.S.A. is secular.

The nation may claim to that, Moses but most Americans ascribe to one religion or another and the majority of those are Christian. Roll Eyes

Quote:

I have no idea what all their beliefs are, do you?

I'm willing to place a bet on it, are you?

Quote:

Quote:

Deuteronomy 17:2-5 you going to condemn that verse in The Bible, Moses?

Done, 2014 years ago by the Saviour and original founders of Christianity: Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

And that faith instructs people to kill disbelievers, Moses. Those verses do not negate Deuteronomy 17:2-5, they reinforce it. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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moses

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Re: islamic
Reply #142 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 5:45pm

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

Which is what I was correcting, Moses. I showed you a reference that proves that "ordinary men" had real problems in, " performing the barbaric inhumanities carried out by nazis[sic] 60 years ago."

Yet they did perform them right?

muslims absolutely believe and accept everything the conglomeration of evil e.g. islam, allah, muhammad, qur'an and hadi'th push down their throat, regarding the commands, exonerations and glorification of terrorism, torture and mass murder dictated by the above assemblage of pure evil.

Not one muslim or their apologists, will stand up and condemn as wrong, evil and totally irrelevant in the 21st century, the commands, teachings and verses which urge and glorify atrocities.

Why won't they?

Quote:

The nation may claim to that, Moses but most Americans ascribe to one religion or another and the majority of those are Christian.

Are they?

You still haven't proved those responsible are in deed Christian, or that there is any Christian doctrine covering these things. (Prove what you say)

Quote:

And that faith instructs people to kill disbelievers, Moses. Those verses do not negate Deuteronomy 17:2-5, they reinforce it.

You'll need to explain how the verses in the N.T. which annul Mosaic Law would reinforce Deuteronomy 17:2-5

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Brian Ross

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Re: islamic
Reply #143 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 6:03pm

moses wrote on Sep 13^th, 2014 at 5:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

Which is what I was correcting, Moses. I showed you a reference that proves that "ordinary men" had real problems in, " performing the barbaric inhumanities carried out by nazis[sic] 60 years ago."

Yet they did perform them right?

Yes but as I pointed out, not without consequence and not necessarily because they wanted to, Moses.

Quote:

muslims absolutely believe and accept everything the conglomeration of evil e.g. islam, allah, muhammad, qur'an and hadi'th push down their throat, regarding the commands, exonerations and glorification of terrorism, torture and mass murder dictated by the above assemblage of pure evil.

Why then are the Salafists having so much trouble recruiting the majority of Muslims to their cause and have to resort to the use of Terror to force them to support them, Moses?

This is where the internal logic of what you claim Muslims believe breaks down because it is demonstrably obvious not all Muslims share the the beliefs you ascribe to them.

Quote:

Not one muslim or their apologists, will stand up and condemn as wrong, evil and totally irrelevant in the 21st century, the commands, teachings and verses which urge and glorify atrocities.

Really? Why is it then possible to find such condemnations after a five second Google search?

You seem to be blind to what is actually being said by Muslims about Islam and the beliefs of the Islamists. Is it because it does not suit your bigoted viewpoint towards Muslims? Roll Eyes

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Why won't they?

But they do. And they do. And they do. Perhaps you're just not looking or refusing to read such condemnations, Moses because it doesn't suit your bigoted position? Roll Eyes

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The nation may claim to that, Moses but most Americans ascribe to one religion or another and the majority of those are Christian.

Are they?

Yes.

Quote:

You still haven't proved those responsible are in deed Christian, or that there is any Christian doctrine covering these things. (Prove what you say)

I am asking why isn't there world-wide Christian condemnation of these Christians carrying out this torture, Moses? Why do not the Christians taking part in the torture, stop it as it is (supposedly) against Christian belief?

Perhaps the reality is, there are levels of belief? Even for Muslims as well as Christians?

Quote:

Quote:

And that faith instructs people to kill disbelievers, Moses. Those verses do not negate Deuteronomy 17:2-5, they reinforce it.

You'll need to explain how the verses in the N.T. which annul Mosaic Law would reinforce Deuteronomy 17:2-5

They do not explicitly state that they do not believe disbelievers should not be killed as God has instructed, Moses.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: islamic
Reply #144 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 7:49pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 13^th, 2014 at 12:28am:

freediver wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 8:31pm:

Quote:

Be it George W. Bush and Dick Cheney or Christopher Pyne, there are numerous examples out there, Muslim and non-Muslim, FD.

Is Muhammed an example?

Some may consider him thus.

Do you?

Do you have both the right and the ability to answer the question?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal

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Re: islamic
Reply #145 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 11:57pm

Soren wrote on Sep 13^th, 2014 at 4:18pm:

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:8

So you keep reminding us, old chap. You have this quote in a framed embroidery over your bed, no? You made it in Craft.

We love you too, dear. We must obey the law, no?

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« Last Edit: Sep 14^th, 2014 at 12:19am by Karnal »

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Gryphon49

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Re: islamic
Reply #146 - Sep 14^th, 2014 at 12:05am

I haven't read all of this thread but, wow, you people sure want your words to impress.

I don't know WHY anyone would defend islam when it exhorts it's followers to murder, maim, rape and LIE to continue it's existence. For the apologists, remember, when your comrades have finished with all the Christians and other "miscreants" overseas, your turn will come. Do you think that these pillars of virtue, (muslims) will see you as anything but quislings? no they won't, your heads will also be used as footballs by the boys.

One other thing, you people seem to get off track quite easy. You bring up Eureka flags, nazis and anything else to show that people other than muslims are as barbaric. You might have a point but, mostly the barbarism ended a LONG time ago and, I haven't seen too many NON muslim people wanting to kill someone for writing a book, or making a cartoon? But I have seen what muslims do to a girl who wants to be educated or a girl who is raped or, etc, etc, etc.

Please don't let me stop you from you enjoyable barb slinging. Cool

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Israel, now and ALWAYS.

Taqiyya: legal dispensation whereby a believing individual can deny his faith or commit illegal or blasphemous acts while they are in fear or risk of significant persecution

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49241 At my desk.	Re: islamic Reply #147 - Sep 14^th, 2014 at 8:16am Brian likes to own people by pointing out that the Nazis were just as bad as the Muslims.
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|dev|null

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Re: islamic
Reply #148 - Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:03am

Gryphon49 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 12:05am:

I haven't read all of this thread but, wow, you people sure want your words to impress.

I don't know WHY anyone would defend islam when it exhorts it's followers to murder, maim, rape and LIE to continue it's existence.

Perhaps you'd care to illustrate where anybody has?

Did you come here for a debate or merely to erect a strawman argument? Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Karnal Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 96221 Gender:	Re: islamic Reply #149 - Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:21am freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 8:16am: Brian likes to own people by pointing out that the Nazis were just as bad as the Muslims. Whereas you have it the other way around. Cunning, no?
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