Australian Politics Forum

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: islamic
Reply #150 - Sep 14^th, 2014 at 3:39pm

Brian Ross

Quote:

Yes but as I pointed out, not without consequence and not necessarily because they wanted to, Moses.

The facts are the nazi's did commit atrocities as part of the nazi agenda.

Another fact is that after the war the Germans showed more guts and intelligence than present day muslims and their apologists, by declaring that their past nazi ideology was indeed wrong, evil, should never have happened and should never happen again.

Something spineless apologists and muslims refuse to do regarding islamic doctrine which is the cause of muslim terrorism, torture and mass murder.

Quote:

Why then are the Salafists having so much trouble recruiting the majority of Muslims to their cause and have to resort to the use of Terror to force them to support them, Moses?

This is where the internal logic of what you claim Muslims believe breaks down because it is demonstrably obvious not all Muslims share the the beliefs you ascribe to them.

Salafists using terror, why?

Because islam, allah, muhammad, qur'an and hadi'th, all urge, exonerate and glorify terrorism.

They are only doing what's right according to the above islamic aggregation of evil.

Quote:

moses wrote: Not one muslim or their apologists, will stand up and condemn as wrong, evil and totally irrelevant in the 21st century, the commands, teachings and verses which urge and glorify atrocities.

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote: Really? Why is it then possible to find such condemnations after a five second Google search?

You seem to be blind to what is actually being said by Muslims about Islam and the beliefs of the Islamists. Is it because it does not suit your bigoted viewpoint towards Muslims?

&

But they do. And they do. And they do. Perhaps you're just not looking or refusing to read such condemnations, Moses because it doesn't suit your bigoted position?

condemn as wrong, evil and totally irrelevant in the 21st century, the commands, teachings and verses which urge and glorify atrocities.

Merely saying they are against terrorism means nothing, absolutely zilch.

What's important is, they refuse to condemn the commands, teachings and verses of islam which glorify and dictate islamic atrocities.

Why are apologists and muslims so afraid of this simple act?

Quote:

I am asking why isn't there world-wide Christian condemnation of these Christians carrying out this torture, Moses? Why do not the Christians taking part in the torture, stop it as it is (supposedly) against Christian belief?

Perhaps the reality is, there are levels of belief? Even for Muslims as well as Christians?

Prove they are indeed Christians, or are you lying to push your own agenda?

Quote:

They do not explicitly state that they do not believe disbelievers should not be killed as God has instructed, Moses.

They explicitly stated 2014 years ago, that the law was finished:

From the dictionary:

Finished = ceased, completed, terminated, ended

Back to top

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 42175

Re: islamic
Reply #151 - Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:33pm

moses wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 3:39pm:

Brian Ross

Quote:

Yes but as I pointed out, not without consequence and not necessarily because they wanted to, Moses.

The facts are the nazi's did commit atrocities as part of the nazi agenda.

Another fact is that after the war the Germans showed more guts and intelligence than present day muslims and their apologists, by declaring that their past nazi ideology was indeed wrong, evil, should never have happened and should never happen again.

Something spineless apologists and muslims refuse to do regarding islamic doctrine which is the cause of muslim terrorism, torture and mass murder.

Which Islamic doctrine, Moses?

You've erected this strawman view of Islam, which has uniform interpretations of everything - your interpretation. Reality is somewhat different. However, you don't argue against reality, do you? Roll Eyes

Quote:

Why then are the Salafists having so much trouble recruiting the majority of Muslims to their cause and have to resort to the use of Terror to force them to support them, Moses?

This is where the internal logic of what you claim Muslims believe breaks down because it is demonstrably obvious not all Muslims share the the beliefs you ascribe to them.

Salafists using terror, why?

Because islam, allah, muhammad, qur'an and hadi'th, all urge, exonerate and glorify terrorism.

They are only doing what's right according to the above islamic aggregation of evil.

But why do they need to? Surely all Muslims, if they believe in that interpretation of Islam would flock to their cause? There would be no need to utilise terror to force them to support the Salafist cause, now would there?

Again, the internal logic of your argument is shown to be contradictory. On one hand, you claim all Muslims are 100% devout and follow the interpretation of Islam that you claim is the only true one, to the letter, all the time, yet, at the same time we have the Salafists having to resort to terror to force the Muslims to support their cause.

Rather contradictory, now isn't it? Gee, perhaps the interpretation that the Salafists and you ascribe to, being the good little Madrassah graduate that you are, isn't the same as the one that the majority of Muslims ascribe to? Chew on that for a little while, Moses. Grin

Quote:

moses wrote: Not one muslim or their apologists, will stand up and condemn as wrong, evil and totally irrelevant in the 21st century, the commands, teachings and verses which urge and glorify atrocities.

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote: Really? Why is it then possible to find such condemnations after a five second Google search?

You seem to be blind to what is actually being said by Muslims about Islam and the beliefs of the Islamists. Is it because it does not suit your bigoted viewpoint towards Muslims?

&

But they do. And they do. And they do. Perhaps you're just not looking or refusing to read such condemnations, Moses because it doesn't suit your bigoted position?

condemn as wrong, evil and totally irrelevant in the 21st century, the commands, teachings and verses which urge and glorify atrocities.

Merely saying they are against terrorism means nothing, absolutely zilch.

What's important is, they refuse to condemn the commands, teachings and verses of islam which glorify and dictate islamic atrocities.

Why are apologists and muslims so afraid of this simple act?

Quote:

I am asking why isn't there world-wide Christian condemnation of these Christians carrying out this torture, Moses? Why do not the Christians taking part in the torture, stop it as it is (supposedly) against Christian belief?

Perhaps the reality is, there are levels of belief? Even for Muslims as well as Christians?

Prove they are indeed Christians, or are you lying to push your own agenda?

Lying? No. Merely offering, as I always do, an alternative interpretation, Moses. Is there no room for alternatives in your philosophy, Horatio? Roll Eyes

Quote:

They do not explicitly state that they do not believe disbelievers should not be killed as God has instructed, Moses.

They explicitly stated 2014 years ago, that the law was finished:

From the dictionary:

Finished = ceased, completed, terminated, ended

Yet those verses are still in The Bible, they are still cited by Christian fundamentalists, Moses. Obviously you're lying, if I use your logic on such matters. Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: islamic Reply #152 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:44pm Brian Ross wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 7:28pm: I didn't claim it did, Soren. However, it goes some way in making you aware that Muslims are not unique in allowing themselves to be manipulated through their religious beliefs, which some seem to think. Tell us, Brain - what ARE Muslims responsible for?
Back to top	IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 42175

Re: islamic
Reply #153 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:48pm

Soren wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:44pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 7:28pm:

I didn't claim it did, Soren. However, it goes some way in making you aware that Muslims are not unique in allowing themselves to be manipulated through their religious beliefs, which some seem to think. Roll Eyes

Tell us, Brain - what ARE Muslims responsible for?

Their own actions? Their own beliefs? Why should Muslims in Australia be held responsible for the actions of Muslims in Syria or Iraq, Soren?

Do you hold Buddhists in Australia responsible for the actions of Buddhists in say, Myanmar or Sri Lanka?

What about Christians for actions of Christians in Africa or Ukraine or the Balkans?

Jews for the actions of Jews in Palestine?

I thought not. Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: islamic
Reply #154 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:28pm

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

Which Islamic doctrine, Moses?

You've erected this strawman view of Islam, which has uniform interpretations of everything - your interpretation. Reality is somewhat different. However, you don't argue against reality, do you?

islamic doctrine of jihad against unbelievers. islamic doctrine of the house of war (Dar Al-Harb).

These two will do for starters.

Quote:

But why do they need to? Surely all Muslims, if they believe in that interpretation of Islam would flock to their cause? There would be no need to utilise terror to force them to support the Salafist cause, now would there?

Again, the internal logic of your argument is shown to be contradictory. On one hand, you claim all Muslims are 100% devout and follow the interpretation of Islam that you claim is the only true one, to the letter, all the time, yet, at the same time we have the Salafists having to resort to terror to force the Muslims to support their cause.

Rather contradictory, now isn't it? Gee, perhaps the interpretation that the Salafists and you ascribe to, being the good little Madrassah graduate that you are, isn't the same as the one that the majority of Muslims ascribe to? Chew on that for a little while, Moses.

Participation takes many forms, the highest grade of muslim (according to the qur'an) is the actual killer. Other muslims and their apologists (like you for example) give the moral support to these actual killers. muslims and their apologists slither around the place, always blaming someone / something else for islamic atrocities, instead of blaming the islamic doctrine of death.

Quote:

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote: I am asking why isn't there world-wide Christian condemnation of these Christians carrying out this torture, Moses? Why do not the Christians taking part in the torture, stop it as it is (supposedly) against Christian belief?

Perhaps the reality is, there are levels of belief? Even for Muslims as well as Christians?

Quote:

moses wrote: Prove they are indeed Christians, or are you lying to push your own agenda?

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote: Lying? No. Merely offering, as I always do, an alternative interpretation, Moses. Is there no room for alternatives in your philosophy, Horatio?

You deliberately lied in true spineless apologist form. You categorically stated Christians were carrying out torture, you are unable to backup this lie.

I unequivocally state Brian Ross is a proven liar on this debate site

Quote:

Yet those verses are still in The Bible, they are still cited by Christian fundamentalists, Moses. Obviously you're lying, if I use your logic on such matters.

Except my logic can prove that muslims who follow the islamic doctrine of jihad, are true muslims (according to qur'an, hadi'th, allah and muhammad).

You prove that fundamentalists are following Christian doctrine.

You prove that O.T.Mosaic doctrine revoked in the N.T. is not annulled for Christians.

Failure to prove your accusations reinforces: I unequivocally state Brian Ross is a proven liar on this debate site

Back to top

IP Logged

Brian Ross Gold Member Online Representative of me Posts: 42175	Re: islamic Reply #155 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 11:25pm Ah, right on cue, with the claim I lied, Moses. You are nothing but predictable. I'd recommend you look up the definition of the word, "lie", in the context of truthfullness. In order to have lied, I must "knowingly have told an untruth". I look forward to your efforts to prove I "knowingly told an untruth", Moses.
Back to top	Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: islamic
Reply #156 - Sep 16^th, 2014 at 7:56am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:48pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:44pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 7:28pm:

I didn't claim it did, Soren. However, it goes some way in making you aware that Muslims are not unique in allowing themselves to be manipulated through their religious beliefs, which some seem to think. Roll Eyes

Tell us, Brain - what ARE Muslims responsible for?

;

Their own actions? Their own beliefs? Why should Muslims in Australia be held responsible for the actions of Muslims in Syria or Iraq, Soren?

Do you hold Buddhists in Australia responsible for the actions of Buddhists in say, Myanmar or Sri Lanka?

What about Christians for actions of Christians in Africa or Ukraine or the Balkans?

Jews for the actions of Jews in Palestine?

I thought not. Roll Eyes

Insofar as people act and speak in the name of their religion, that religion is open to critical scrutiny and in the course of that scrutiny other adherents' actions and speech are seen and heard in the context, in the light of that critical scrutiny: to what extent do they share the beliefs, motivations, doctrines?

Muslims here have nothing to to do with Muslims in other countries? That's preposterous and so I am not surprised you would try to argue it.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40763 Gender:	Re: islamic Reply #157 - Sep 16^th, 2014 at 9:56am And I got a flat tyre on by bike on the weekend. Darned muslims.
Back to top	Modern Classic Right Wing IP Logged

|dev|null

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male

Re: islamic
Reply #158 - Sep 16^th, 2014 at 12:36pm

Soren wrote on Sep 16^th, 2014 at 7:56am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:48pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:44pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 7:28pm:

I didn't claim it did, Soren. However, it goes some way in making you aware that Muslims are not unique in allowing themselves to be manipulated through their religious beliefs, which some seem to think. Roll Eyes

Tell us, Brain - what ARE Muslims responsible for?

;

Their own actions? Their own beliefs? Why should Muslims in Australia be held responsible for the actions of Muslims in Syria or Iraq, Soren?

Do you hold Buddhists in Australia responsible for the actions of Buddhists in say, Myanmar or Sri Lanka?

What about Christians for actions of Christians in Africa or Ukraine or the Balkans?

Jews for the actions of Jews in Palestine?

I thought not. Roll Eyes

Insofar as people act and speak in the name of their religion, that religion is open to critical scrutiny and in the course of that scrutiny other adherents' actions and speech are seen and heard in the context, in the light of that critical scrutiny: to what extent do they share the beliefs, motivations, doctrines?

And when they say they don't, you declare they are practising "taqiyya"! Grin

Back to top

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

IP Logged

Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40763 Gender:	Re: islamic Reply #159 - Sep 16^th, 2014 at 12:44pm Quote: ........they are practising "taqiyya".... which is in the koran. As is beheading, chopping off hands, beating your wife.
Back to top	Modern Classic Right Wing IP Logged

\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: islamic Reply #160 - Sep 16^th, 2014 at 12:52pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 16^th, 2014 at 12:44pm: Quote: ........they are practising "taqiyya".... which is in the koran. As is beheading, chopping off hands, beating your wife. Similar stuff in the Bible!
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96218 Gender:	Re: islamic Reply #161 - Sep 16^th, 2014 at 12:52pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 16^th, 2014 at 12:44pm: Quote: ........they are practising "taqiyya".... which is in the koran. As is beheading, chopping off hands, beating your wife. G should be able to settle this one, Sprint. Is any of that in the Quran, G?
Back to top	IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: islamic Reply #162 - Sep 16^th, 2014 at 2:19pm There is no Quranic basis to taqiyya. Normally I'd ask sprint to prove his claim - but he'll probably just do what he did last time and demand that I find his bs claims for him.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 96218
Gender: male

Re: islamic
Reply #163 - Sep 16^th, 2014 at 2:21pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 16^th, 2014 at 2:19pm:

There is no Quranic basis to taqiyya.

Normally I'd ask sprint to prove his claim - but he'll probably just do what he did last time and demand that I find his bs claims for him.

What about beheading, chopping off hands, and beating up your wife, G?

We know that these are in the Bible. Are they in the Koran too?

Back to top

IP Logged

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: islamic
Reply #164 - Sep 16^th, 2014 at 2:31pm

Brian Ross wrote:
Quote:

Ah, right on cue, with the claim I lied, Moses. You are nothing but predictable.

I'd recommend you look up the definition of the word, "lie", in the context of truthfullness. In order to have lied, I must "knowingly have told an untruth". I look forward to your efforts to prove I "knowingly told an untruth", Moses.

O.K. the truth is pretty easy to establish.

FROM The dictionary:

Noun lie: A statement that deviates from or perverts the truth.

Verb lie: The deliberate act of deviating from the truth.

Brian Ross wrote Reply #143 - Sep 13th, 2014 at 6:03pm: Quote:

I am asking why isn't there world-wide Christian condemnation of these Christians carrying out this torture, Moses? Why do not the Christians taking part in the torture, stop it as it is (supposedly) against Christian belief?

You made a statement that deviates from and perverts truth. You have no idea what beliefs these people hold, yet you categorically stated they were Christians, you deliberately lied.

I unequivocally state Brian Ross is a proven liar on this debate site

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 16^th, 2014 at 3:32pm by moses »

IP Logged