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Sprintcyclist

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Re: islamic
Reply #15 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 10:43am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 6^th, 2014 at 11:16pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 6^th, 2014 at 11:07pm:

Islamic State - must mean that is an.... er.... ISLAMIC State, no?
Why else would they call it ISLAMIC?

In your deluded world even ISLAMIC has nuffin' to do wiv.... er..... Islam.

Please explain, Brain.

They may call it what they want. Do you often fail to look beyond mere labels and see the lack of substance behind them, Soren? Roll Eyes

So you are inferring isis are falsely using islam as a front for their action ?

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: islamic
Reply #16 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 10:45am

Soren wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 12:50am:

Never claimed.end to be a christian, hot breath.

But why would you not believe Muslims who claim to be Muslims and are quoting the Koran and act entirely in accordance with historical Islamic precedence of killing the unbelievers? There is nothing unprecedented in what the IS guys are doing. They know it, all other Muslims know it. Even you know it, no matter how much you'd pretend otherwise.
Your soft bigotry of disbelieving them because you do not like what they say and do is pathetic, spineless, squishy and completely fake.

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Brian Ross

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Re: islamic
Reply #17 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 2:39pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 10:43am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 6^th, 2014 at 11:16pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 6^th, 2014 at 11:07pm:

Islamic State - must mean that is an.... er.... ISLAMIC State, no?
Why else would they call it ISLAMIC?

In your deluded world even ISLAMIC has nuffin' to do wiv.... er..... Islam.

Please explain, Brain.

They may call it what they want. Do you often fail to look beyond mere labels and see the lack of substance behind them, Soren? Roll Eyes

So you are inferring isis are falsely using islam as a front for their action ?

Not me. The International Investigations Group. I am merely reporting their comments as a comparison to yours which attribute everything to Islam. Personally, I'm undecided. I suspect those at the top of IS are motived by their interpretation of Islam while those much further down are motived by their ruthless drive to gain power. What I do know is that IS is considered extreme, even by those who previously have been considered by most commentators as "extreme". Therefore, your attempt to portray their views as being mainsteam are obviously wildly mistaken, Sprint. Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: islamic
Reply #18 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 2:43pm

Soren wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 12:50am:

Never claimed.end to be a christian, hot breath.

Sorry, are you addressing my question, Soren? Roll Eyes

Quote:

But why would you not believe Muslims who claim to be Muslims and are quoting the Koran and act entirely in accordance with historical Islamic precedence of killing the unbelievers? There is nothing unprecedented in what the IS guys are doing. They know it, all other Muslims know it. Even you know it, no matter how much you'd pretend otherwise.
Your soft bigotry of disbelieving them because you do not like what they say and do is pathetic, spineless, squishy and completely fake.

What you believe and what the rest of the world knows are often at wild variance with one another, Soren.

We have seen that you take the most extreme and fundamentalist interpretation you can, time after time, despite it being explained to you that Islam has changed since the 7th century. This is why I suspect you are secretly a graduate from the most extreme and fundamentalist Madrassah possible. Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: islamic
Reply #19 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 2:45pm

freediver wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 8:26am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 6^th, 2014 at 6:28pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 6^th, 2014 at 6:08pm:

Quote:

............“Then the mourners began to protest, demanding that the IS leave the town of Ashara,” Furati told AFP via the internet.

The Observatory said that, on Friday, the IS publicly executed and crucified a young man identified as Ali Khalaf, accusing him of “heresy and apostasy.”

“Though he had nothing to do with yesterday’s protests, they executed him publicly in Ashara in order to terrorise people into not taking any kind of action against the IS,” Abdel Rahman said...........

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/world/islamic-state-fighters-execute-crucify-...

This is islam

Is it? Yet the international investigation team raised and funded by the UK government have stated that most IS members "know little about Islam", Sprint. Many are hick yokels who are part of criminal gangs apparently, who have risen through the ranks because of their ruthlessness, not their religious knowledge. IS itself has devolved authority to local commanders and there is little real central direction, despite their propaganda to the contrary.

Do you have to understand how a jumbo jet works to believe it will get you to your destination?

Ah, so your Jumbo Jet sails across the oceans does it? Roll Eyes

Quote:

Did the investigation find that they were all Muslims and all fighting in the name of Islam?

Using that line of argument, FD means that Joseph Kony and Fred Phelps are the most devout Christians in existence and should be recognised as the Standard bearers of that religion. Are they? Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: islamic
Reply #20 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 3:14pm

Yes, you are hot breath/Brain.
And there is nothing extreme in what say. I simply do not display your soft bigotry but take the IS, hamas, boko haram, hezb'allah boys at their own words and judge them by those and by their actions - and do not pretend, like you, that they are not docrinally impeccably Islamic.

I invite you to show us what they have said or done that has no koranic authority behind and is not based on well-established islamic historical precedent.

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 2:43pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 12:50am:

Never claimed.end to be a christian, hot breath.

Sorry, are you addressing my question, Soren? Roll Eyes

Quote:

But why would you not believe Muslims who claim to be Muslims and are quoting the Koran and act entirely in accordance with historical Islamic precedence of killing the unbelievers? There is nothing unprecedented in what the IS guys are doing. They know it, all other Muslims know it. Even you know it, no matter how much you'd pretend otherwise.
Your soft bigotry of disbelieving them because you do not like what they say and do is pathetic, spineless, squishy and completely fake.

What you believe and what the rest of the world knows are often at wild variance with one another, Soren.

We have seen that you take the most extreme and fundamentalist interpretation you can, time after time, despite it being explained to you that Islam has changed since the 7th century. This is why I suspect you are secretly a graduate from the most extreme and fundamentalist Madrassah possible. Roll Eyes

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Re: islamic
Reply #21 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 4:03pm

Soren wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 3:14pm:

Yes, you are hot breath/Brain.

I am neither, Soren. Roll Eyes

Quote:

And there is nothing extreme in what say. I simply do not display your soft bigotry but take the IS, hamas, boko haram, hezb'allah boys at their own words and judge them by those and by their actions - and do not pretend, like you, that they are not docrinally impeccably Islamic.

Yet, when I suggest the same should be said about people such as Joseph Kony or Fred Phelps, you are one of the ones that protest, Soren.

Do you believe Joseph Kony or Fred Phelps are representative of what the average Christian believe?

Or are they Christian extremists?

Quote:

I invite you to show us what they have said or done that has no koranic authority behind and is not based on well-established islamic historical precedent.

I ask you to point me to what Joseph Kony or Fred Phelps have said or done which is not based on "well-established" Christian historical precedent.

Perhaps the point is you should be asking why does what IS has done so at variance with modern interpretations of Islamic belief, just as what Kony and Phelps (and his family) have done, is.

It appears for you and for IS, 1400 years of thinking has been thrown out the window. You'd fit into their ranks without a blink, Soren. Roll Eyes

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Re: islamic
Reply #22 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 4:03pm

Quote:

I suspect those at the top of IS are motived by their interpretation of Islam while those much further down are motived by their ruthless drive to gain power.

Well done Brian. One of the great truisms is that people with a lust for power end up at the bottom.

Quote:

We have seen that you take the most extreme and fundamentalist interpretation you can, time after time, despite it being explained to you that Islam has changed since the 7th century.

Can you find a Muslim who thinks it has changed since the 7th century?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: islamic Reply #23 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 4:09pm I have not heard Kony or Phelps say anything christian. Can you show us anything?
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Team Murdoch

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Re: islamic
Reply #24 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 5:00pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 29^th, 2014 at 11:53pm:

Quote:

They also said they had a list of the town’s Christian families and the tribute they had to pay to be able to continue living there.

How awful! They were required to pay a tax? At least Christians don't have to pay tax in Australia right? Much better off!

Annual tax on Christian family in Islamic State - - -$400
Annual tax on Christian family in Australia - - - - - $20,000

Christians living in the Islamic State are taxed about 3% of their income.

Australian Christians are taxed about a third of their income.

Oh the tyranny!

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Re: islamic
Reply #25 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 5:52pm

freediver wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 4:03pm:

Quote:

I suspect those at the top of IS are motived by their interpretation of Islam while those much further down are motived by their ruthless drive to gain power.

Well done Brian. One of the great truisms is that people with a lust for power end up at the bottom.

No, FD, that is where they start. They work their way up though, rather quickly. They are often useful to those at the top, until those at the top suddenly find themselves being replaced. This has happened in numerous revolutionary movements throughout history.

Quote:

Quote:

We have seen that you take the most extreme and fundamentalist interpretation you can, time after time, despite it being explained to you that Islam has changed since the 7th century.

Can you find a Muslim who thinks it has changed since the 7th century?

Yes. Gandalf is one. Wink

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Re: islamic
Reply #26 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 6:04pm

Soren wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 4:09pm:

I have not heard Kony or Phelps say anything christian. Can you show us anything?

Quote:

Thank God for the violent shooter, one of your soldier heroes in Tucson. God appointed the Afghanistan veteran to avenge himself on this evil nation. However many are dead, Westboro Baptist Church will picket their funerals. We will remind the living that you can still repent and obey. This is ultimatum time with God. Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke 13:3. This nation unleashed criminal violent veterans on Westboro Baptist Church for telling you to obey God. We told you at your soldiers' funerals that they are dying for your sins. You hate those words and you will not stop sinning. So you sent violent veterans, so-called patriot guard riders, to attack and try to silence Westboro Baptist Church. Then you sent violent crippled veteran Ryan Newell with 90 rounds of ammunition, planning to shoot five Westboro Baptist Church members while picketing. God restrained the hand of them all, then he turned the violent veteran on you. 22-year-old Jared Loughner opened fire outside a Tucson, Arizona grocery store, shooting Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, Federal Judge John M. Roll, and sixteen others. At least six are dead and counting. Congress passed three laws against Westboro Baptist Church. Congresswoman Giffords, an avid supporter of sin and baby-killing, was shot for that mischief. A federal judge in Baltimore, part of the massive military community in Maryland and in the District of Columbia, put Westboro Baptist Church on trial for faithful words from God. Federal Judge Roll paid for those sins with his life. Today, mouthy witch Sarah Palin had Representative Giffords in her crosshairs on her website. She quick took it down, however, because she is a cowardly brute like the rest of you. The crosshairs to worry about are God's and he's put you in his and your destruction is upon you. You should have obeyed. This nation of violent murderers is in full rebellion against God. God avenged himself on you today by a marvelous work in Tucson. He sits in the heavens and laughs at you in your affliction. Westboro Baptist Church prays for more shooters, more violent veterans, and more dead. Praise God for his righteous judgments in this Earth. Amen.

Fred Phelps, on the 2011 Tucson shooting.

[Source]

Quote:

I had a faintly nerve-racking drink with Francis Ongom, one of Kony's ex-officers, who defected only recently and who would not agree to be questioned about his own past crimes. "Kony has refused Sudan's request that he allow his soldiers to convert to Islam," said this hardened-looking man as he imbibed a Red Bull through a straw, "but he has found Bible justifications for killing witches, for killing pigs because of the story of the Gadarene swine, and for killing people because god did the same with Noah's flood and Sodom and Gomorrah." Nice to know that he is immersed in the Good Book.

[Source]

You were saying, Soren? Roll Eyes

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Re: islamic
Reply #27 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 6:10pm

Quote:

No, FD, that is where they start. They work their way up though, rather quickly. They are often useful to those at the top, until those at the top suddenly find themselves being replaced. This has happened in numerous revolutionary movements throughout history.

That sounds aweful. We risk the true Islamicness of the Islamic state being corrupted by those with a lust for power.

Quote:

Yes. Gandalf is one.

Can you quote him saying that Islam has changed??

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Brian Ross

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Re: islamic
Reply #28 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 6:16pm

freediver wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 6:10pm:

Quote:

No, FD, that is where they start. They work their way up though, rather quickly. They are often useful to those at the top, until those at the top suddenly find themselves being replaced. This has happened in numerous revolutionary movements throughout history.

That sounds aweful. We risk the true Islamicness of the Islamic state being corrupted by those with a lust for power.

And when it happens, what does that do to the claim that the Islamic State is well, Islamic? We know Soren doesn't look beyond labels. Are you the same, FD? Roll Eyes

Quote:

Yes. Gandalf is one.

Can you quote him saying that Islam has changed??

I'll let him speak for himself if he wants to, FD.

I'd have thought the fact that Hadiths were created post Mohammed to explain Mohammed's thinking was sufficient evidence that Islam had changed since the death of Mohammed. Of course, we could also talk about the Schisms but that might be embarrassing for you. Wink

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: islamic Reply #29 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 9:51pm Phelps - isolated, including by law (respect for America's fallen heroes act). Kony - you haven't given us anything other than a reporter's surmise. If this is what you think is equal counterweight to the Islamic ideology of countless Muslim terrorist organizations, than you a sadder, more deluded numpty than anyone expected. :
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