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Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal (Read 7638 times)
Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #60 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:31am  
Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:29am:
Jasin wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 11:07pm:
I think that Australia has got the ability to build Submarines - but like Qantas, the Govt and other Companies just don't want to pay top $$$ for such 'Quality' workmanship.


Considering we have just recently built a Submersible to take James Cameron down to the deepest part of the ocean.

But maybe we must face the fact with 'Military' that its much like a Holden compared to a Toyota and we must bite the bullet and 'sell out'. Just because its 'Australian', doesn't necessary make it 'good'.

I think that Whyalla and South Australia should be given a 'Fair Go' though.

Nippon Subs? Well they might be like those Millenium Trains & BlackHawk Helicopters =  Tongue  Tongue


You're wrong, so very wrong. We did that with the Collins-Class and that was a debacle. We've done that with the Air Warfare Destroyers and they're half a billion dollars over-budget and at least two years late. See the link below for the litany of problems that have plagued the Collins-Class submarines - all because we wanted to build them here. Sometimes you've just got to acknowledge that there's some things we do well and some things we don't and that the things we don't do well are best left to others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collins-class_submarine#Construction


It seems at the moment that's about everything apart from dole queue etiquette....  I'm sure the governments of the last several decades accept zero responsibility for any problems with the building of ships here - considering they wound down the ship-building capacity of Oz on economic grounds, thus reducing the skills level and destroying the skills and experience infrastructure required.

Long way to go back now to get it kick-started again - these submarines are just the thing to start.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #61 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:35am  
Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:19am:
John Smith wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 9:37am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:59am:
John Smith wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:51am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:42am:
John Smith wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:38am:
you're an idiot armpit, no matter what poo they shovel, you stand there with your mouth wide open swallowing everything that comes your way ...

Mirrabella is just there for the paycheck ... defence minister and the minister for feorign affairs job to worry about any political ramifications, not mirrabella ....


You really are stupid if you think the Defence Minister and Foreign Minister are the only ones who are paid to consider the political aspect of military acquisitions. Roll Eyes


I didn't say they were the only ones dickhead .. they each have hundreds if not thousands of staff under them to consider things for them, not to mention all the intelligence agencies




Yes, and military contractors also have political staff in their employ - Northrop, BAE, ASC, Boeing Defense - all have staff employed for the political aspect of military acquisitions.


military contractors can employ who ever they like .... this is a govt. appointed board mirrabella is on.


... that bids on military contracts. Der!!!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



A sinecure without valid work by any other name - for what reason is a government-appointed body 'needed' to bid on military contracts?  This is just another rip-off job for the mates/cronies at the whim of the government stooges.

If the Unions did that you'd be screaming blue murder.

The End of the Age of Entitlement also means the abolition of such wasteful, unnecessary, duplicative (new word?), and politically driven no-jobs just to give old pals an fat income for doing nothing when they have failed their electorate.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Datalife
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #62 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:47am  
John Smith wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 9:37am:
military contractors can employ who ever they like .... this is a govt. appointed board mirrabella is on.


Nope not at all, depending on the project employees and management get scrutinised and suppliers to that company also get scrutinised (or they get affirmations) to confirm they comply with some government contracting principles and ISOs.
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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

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John Smith
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #63 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 1:21pm  
Datalife wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:47am:
John Smith wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 9:37am:
military contractors can employ who ever they like .... this is a govt. appointed board mirrabella is on.


Nope not at all, depending on the project employees and management get scrutinised and suppliers to that company also get scrutinised (or they get affirmations) to confirm they comply with some government contracting principles and ISOs.


yes yes, i know .... that wasn't what we were talking about but good side track
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #64 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 1:26pm  
Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:19am:
John Smith wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 9:37am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:59am:
John Smith wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:51am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:42am:
John Smith wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:38am:
you're an idiot armpit, no matter what poo they shovel, you stand there with your mouth wide open swallowing everything that comes your way ...

Mirrabella is just there for the paycheck ... defence minister and the minister for feorign affairs job to worry about any political ramifications, not mirrabella ....


You really are stupid if you think the Defence Minister and Foreign Minister are the only ones who are paid to consider the political aspect of military acquisitions. Roll Eyes


I didn't say they were the only ones dickhead .. they each have hundreds if not thousands of staff under them to consider things for them, not to mention all the intelligence agencies




Yes, and military contractors also have political staff in their employ - Northrop, BAE, ASC, Boeing Defense - all have staff employed for the political aspect of military acquisitions.


military contractors can employ who ever they like .... this is a govt. appointed board mirrabella is on.


... that bids on military contracts. Der!!!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

So the govt. is bidding for its own contracts?  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin She isn't hired by the contractor she's hired by the govt. ...its tax dollars paying her salary, not shareholder dollars
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #65 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:02pm  
Bobby. wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:51pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 9:02am:
adelcrow wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:57am:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:48am:
shorten doesn't give  crap where they are built.  he just thinks there are votes in it.  that's all he ever does.



Its no surprise that Longy supports Abbotts disgraceful anti South Australia campaign



above all, I'd like submarines that work.  the ASC hasn't don't a particularly good job at that.



Would you forgive the Aussie workers if they do manage to get
all 6 Collins subs operational & out to sea?



No reply from Longy.

The question is too hard for him.
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #66 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:21pm  
He's here:-

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1410405612/15#15

I suppose he figures he should try his mettle out on me and argue with me over LurkChoices - the WorkChoices you ahve when you're not having WorkChoices....

I re-state my initial position - in order to have work choices you first need to have work available.... same as 'dole bludgers' - first offer them a job that pays enough to live on without spending all their money to get there, and only then attack and punish them for being slackers and leaners.

I'm 65 - anyone prepared to offer me a full-time job at proper rates?  I'm in the market - hell - I'll even offer ASIO (again) the chance to pull me in and have someone on board with some sense and knowledge of things arcane that they miss.. they don't yet realise they always needed me, and left me out in the cold to be 'discredited' by their lackeys.  A 'copper' I'm not - could never stoop so low - but I sure can do stuff.... and I'm not limited by 'copper syndrome' as so many are in their work....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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mantra
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #67 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 5:13am  
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:48am:
shorten doesn't give  crap where they are built.  he just thinks there are votes in it.  that's all he ever does.


Shorten should have had the guts and integrity to stand up to Abbott and not agreed to ultimately support the contract. A $40 billion injection to Japan with our money! With so many industries going offshore and work being outsourced - where is the loyalty from our leaders? Shorten won't score points over his compliance.

Every submarine, aircraft, bus or train we've imported has had huge problems and ultimately ended up going way over budget.
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« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2014 at 5:58am by mantra »  
 
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #68 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 5:21am  
Australia's Industry Policy

The AIP National Framework sets out four strategic approaches to promote Australian industry participation:

■encouraging industry to meet world’s best practice through capability building;

■early identification of opportunities for Australian industry participation both domestically and overseas;

■promoting Australian capability and integrating industry into global supply chains; and

■enhancing project facilitation and Australian industry participation.

http://www.industry.gov.au/industry/AustralianIndustryParticipation/Pages/Austra...
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #69 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:05am  
mantra wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 5:13am:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:48am:
shorten doesn't give  crap where they are built.  he just thinks there are votes in it.  that's all he ever does.


Shorten should have had the guts and integrity to stand up to Abbott and not agreed to ultimately support the contract. A $40 billion injection to Japan with our money! With so many industries going offshore and work being outsourced - where is the loyalty from our leaders? Shorten won't score points over his compliance.

Every submarine, aircraft, bus or train we've imported has had huge problems and ultimately ended up going way over budget.



Some military hardware has problems some does not, it depends on the level of new technology involved; F-35 yes, F-111 yes, both F-18's no, C17 No.  If we blunder down this path again, the problems will compound because the ASC if friggen clueless and not very good at building subs.

As for loyalty, how about some loyalty to those that have to man these subs, what about their livelihood or their lives for that matter?

If the ASC wasn't so crap, they would hve been considered; it is their fault they are no longer considered as a viable shipbuilder. You want to point the finger, point it where it belongs.
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longweekend58
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #70 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:11am  
mantra wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 5:13am:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:48am:
shorten doesn't give  crap where they are built.  he just thinks there are votes in it.  that's all he ever does.


Shorten should have had the guts and integrity to stand up to Abbott and not agreed to ultimately support the contract. A $40 billion injection to Japan with our money! With so many industries going offshore and work being outsourced - where is the loyalty from our leaders? Shorten won't score points over his compliance.

Every submarine, aircraft, bus or train we've imported has had huge problems and ultimately ended up going way over budget.


every one???  some yes, but not all or even close.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #71 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:14am  
Bobby. wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:02pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:51pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 9:02am:
adelcrow wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:57am:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:48am:
shorten doesn't give  crap where they are built.  he just thinks there are votes in it.  that's all he ever does.



Its no surprise that Longy supports Abbotts disgraceful anti South Australia campaign



above all, I'd like submarines that work.  the ASC hasn't don't a particularly good job at that.



Would you forgive the Aussie workers if they do manage to get
all 6 Collins subs operational & out to sea?



No reply from Longy.

The question is too hard for him.



its not about GETTING them out, ten years after they were built but KEEPING them out at sea.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #72 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:25am  
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:14am:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:02pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:51pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 9:02am:
adelcrow wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:57am:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:48am:
shorten doesn't give  crap where they are built.  he just thinks there are votes in it.  that's all he ever does.



Its no surprise that Longy supports Abbotts disgraceful anti South Australia campaign



above all, I'd like submarines that work.  the ASC hasn't don't a particularly good job at that.



Would you forgive the Aussie workers if they do manage to get
all 6 Collins subs operational & out to sea?



No reply from Longy.

The question is too hard for him.



its not about GETTING them out, ten years after they were built but KEEPING them out at sea.



All the Collins subs are undergoing an upgrade -

maybe they'll be alright now?
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longweekend58
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #73 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:46am  
Bobby. wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:25am:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:14am:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:02pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:51pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 9:02am:
adelcrow wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:57am:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:48am:
shorten doesn't give  crap where they are built.  he just thinks there are votes in it.  that's all he ever does.



Its no surprise that Longy supports Abbotts disgraceful anti South Australia campaign



above all, I'd like submarines that work.  the ASC hasn't don't a particularly good job at that.



Would you forgive the Aussie workers if they do manage to get
all 6 Collins subs operational & out to sea?



No reply from Longy.

The question is too hard for him.



its not about GETTING them out, ten years after they were built but KEEPING them out at sea.



All the Collins subs are undergoing an upgrade -

maybe they'll be alright now?



the question is over ASC's competence.  taking ten years to get subs 'right' isn't helping their cause.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Mr Shorten Will Toepedo The Submarine Deal
Reply #74 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:50am  
Bobby. wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:25am:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:14am:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:02pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:51pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 9:02am:
adelcrow wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:57am:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:48am:
shorten doesn't give  crap where they are built.  he just thinks there are votes in it.  that's all he ever does.



Its no surprise that Longy supports Abbotts disgraceful anti South Australia campaign



above all, I'd like submarines that work.  the ASC hasn't don't a particularly good job at that.



Would you forgive the Aussie workers if they do manage to get
all 6 Collins subs operational & out to sea?



No reply from Longy.

The question is too hard for him.



its not about GETTING them out, ten years after they were built but KEEPING them out at sea.



All the Collins subs are undergoing an upgrade -

maybe they'll be alright now?




Even you don't believe that the ASC is any good, otherwise you wouldn't use words like "if & maybe".


Not something we should gamble the lives of our submariners on, now is it?


I doubt you would be so keen to endanger your life just to give some cretin a job.  Angry
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