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Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures (Read 2519 times)
imcrookonit
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Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Sep 12th, 2014 at 6:09am
 
Economists slam ABS over wild jobs figures

    The Australian
    September 12, 2014


THE Australian Bureau of Statistics has come under fire after ­reporting the biggest monthly jump in employment in the 35 years of official records, with market economists slamming the figures as “unbelievable.”      Shocked    

The August monthly labour force survey showed 121,000 jobs were created in four weeks, more than the economy had generated in the previous 12 months and ­almost 10 times more than the market was expecting. Almost 90 per cent of the new jobs were part-time.

Citigroup’s two chief economists, Josh Williamson and Paul Brennan, said: “We don’t believe the data.”      Sad

They added that “even the ABS probably doesn’t believe it”.

The ABS stood by its report. Acting chief statistician Peter Harper said the bureau had thoroughly investigated the survey and not found any evidence of problems.

“The August numbers were compiled in accordance with our high professional standards,” Mr Harper said. “There were no methodological changes made in August that would ­explain the significant increase in part-time employment.”

The upbeat survey brought the jobless rate down from 6.4 per cent to 6.1 per cent. It reversed the jump in unemployment recorded in July, which had been the biggest one-month increase since 2002 and was similarly greeted with scepticism.

Even the government was cautious about claiming too much credit for the August ­report. Employment Minister Eric Abetz said: “Today’s figures are encouraging, but the volatility in the numbers show the labour market is soft and employers still have concerns about taking on new employees.”

Market economists pointed to changes in the questionnaire used in the survey, which were introduced in July. Among them was the introduction of a question asking whether people were ­starting a small business, and this might be skewing the survey.

The ABS said the changes in the survey in July could not ­explain the moves in August.

Citigroup said it was unlikely an economy growing below trend with very slow wages growth would suddenly report the biggest ever increase in unemployment.

The survey showed the number participating in the labour force had registered the biggest one-month increase in 12 years.

Unemployment rates fell in all states, South Australia registering a huge fall from 7.2 per cent to 5.9 per cent. Tasmania’s rate fell from 7.6 per cent to 7.1 per cent while the decline in other states was between 0.1 per cent and 0.3 percentage points.    

JP Morgan senior economist Ben Jarman said the unreliability of the jobs data would enable the Reserve Bank to keep rates steady, even if the economy was deteriorating.

“Given the governor’s reluctance to ease policy again, he now has even more scope to slip behind a veil of uncertainty regarding the degree of slack in the economy and keep policy on hold,” Mr Jarman said. He said the RBA would have to rely on other economic data to guide its action. The central bank expects unemployment to remain around current levels until 2016.

Other economists noted that, while the level of employment ­apparently leapt, the number of hours worked fell and the level of “under-employment” — those who don’t have a job or are working fewer hours than they would like — jumped to a 16 year high of 14.6 per cent. The dollar jumped from US91.6c to US92.2c following the jobs data release, but fell back to US91.8c as analysts questioned their reliability.      Sad

Economists believed the unemployment figure in August of 6.1 per cent was probably “about right”. ANZ economists Savita Singh and Riki Polygenis said there had been other indicators the labour market was at least stabilising and possibly improving.

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Armchair_Politician
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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #1 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 6:33am
 
I bet if it was a Labor government, those figures would be nothing short of miraculous AND unquestioned! Grin Grin Grin
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imcrookonit
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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #2 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 7:07am
 
Labor or liberal government the question should be asked.  Whats the real unemployment number?.      Sad
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longweekend58
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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 7:59am
 
so if we say that there was a transient problem in the data do we now admit that the 6.4% of last month was WRONG???

no of course not because that means abbott didn't do all those things you say he did.

it is funny watching you crowd carry on like headless chooks.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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John Smith
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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #4 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:02am
 
longie you're so full of it ... stop acting like Abbotts cheerleader and look at the facts. .. its not just forum users saying the figures sound dodgy, it economists from all over the country... you really believe we created more jobs in 4 weeks than the last 12 months combined'?

time to put those pom poms down longie
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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #5 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:08am
 
They didn't slam them last quarter?  Huh

Quote:
Citigroup’s two chief economists, Josh Williamson and Paul Brennan, said: “We don’t believe the data.”      


Citigroup.....pssst......you can go with them  Sad

I'll go with the Aussie economists Crook  Smiley

Quote:
Economists believed the unemployment figure in August of 6.1 per cent was probably “about right”. ANZ economists Savita Singh and Riki Polygenis said there had been other indicators the labour market was at least stabilising and possibly improving


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longweekend58
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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #6 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:09am
 
John Smith wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:02am:
longie you're so full of it ... stop acting like Abbotts cheerleader and look at the facts. .. its not just forum users saying the figures sound dodgy, it economists from all over the country... you really believe we created more jobs in 4 weeks than the last 12 months combined'?

time to put those pom poms down longie


so JS choose your position on this:

1) the 6.4% of last month was wrong and it was actually 6.1% so all your criticisms were unjustified

- OR -

2) the Abbott govt has massively improved employment and the biggest drop in unemployment in 35 years.


they are your only two choices and both suck for you.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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John Smith
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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #7 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:15am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:09am:
John Smith wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:02am:
longie you're so full of it ... stop acting like Abbotts cheerleader and look at the facts. .. its not just forum users saying the figures sound dodgy, it economists from all over the country... you really believe we created more jobs in 4 weeks than the last 12 months combined'?

time to put those pom poms down longie


so JS choose your position on this:

1) the 6.4% of last month was wrong and it was actually 6.1% so all your criticisms were unjustified

- OR -

2) the Abbott govt has massively improved employment and the biggest drop in unemployment in 35 years.


they are your only two choices and both suck for you.


3) figures look dodgy and should be taken with a grain of salt
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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imcrookonit
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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #8 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:22am
 
Citigroup’s two chief economists, Josh Williamson and Paul Brennan, said: “We don’t believe the data.”    

They added that “even the ABS probably doesn’t believe it”.   Sad   
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Dnarever
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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #9 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:34am
 
Quote:
Market economists pointed to changes in the questionnaire used in the survey, which were introduced in July. Among them was the introduction of a question asking whether people were ­starting a small business, and this might be skewing the survey.


I would think it obvious that if this question is added and a yes response is considered to be employed then we have a substantial change in the method which would result in at a minimum a stabilisation of employment numbers.


Quote:
“There were no methodological changes made in August that would ­explain the significant increase in part-time employment.”


But there is a recent change in methodology which would hold full time employment higher than would otherwise have been the case. Increasing part time employment may have been balance against loss of full time employment as has been the consistent trend but with the loss of full time employment made to look better than it would have been previously measured to be the result could be a record improvement in appearance.

At this point I believe that time will tell the story, we need more numbers.

At this time we have two consecutive diametrically opposed results - Houston we have a problem - I would not  advise blindly trusting either number. I suspect that they are both wrong.

Was the first high reading an anomaly ? Was the latest reading an anomaly ?

We had a record jump followed by a record reduction which means that over the three reading period we are still at the same point we started from - effectively nothing has happened.

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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #10 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:35am
 
Quote:
They added that “even the ABS probably doesn’t believe it”.


The ABS doesn't believe its own data?  Roll Eyes  Maybe the ABS should be privatised so that they don't make stupid errors.... Grin

John Smith wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:15am:
figures look dodgy and should be taken with a grain of salt



....just like all of Smithy's posts   Wink   Grin

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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #11 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:36am
 
John Smith wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:15am:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:09am:
John Smith wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:02am:
longie you're so full of it ... stop acting like Abbotts cheerleader and look at the facts. .. its not just forum users saying the figures sound dodgy, it economists from all over the country... you really believe we created more jobs in 4 weeks than the last 12 months combined'?

time to put those pom poms down longie


so JS choose your position on this:

1) the 6.4% of last month was wrong and it was actually 6.1% so all your criticisms were unjustified

- OR -

2) the Abbott govt has massively improved employment and the biggest drop in unemployment in 35 years.


they are your only two choices and both suck for you.


3) figures look dodgy and should be taken with a grain of salt



Oh NO!!!   not a "ROUGE" report!!!  Smiley
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longweekend58
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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #12 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:41am
 
John Smith wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:15am:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:09am:
John Smith wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:02am:
longie you're so full of it ... stop acting like Abbotts cheerleader and look at the facts. .. its not just forum users saying the figures sound dodgy, it economists from all over the country... you really believe we created more jobs in 4 weeks than the last 12 months combined'?

time to put those pom poms down longie


so JS choose your position on this:

1) the 6.4% of last month was wrong and it was actually 6.1% so all your criticisms were unjustified

- OR -

2) the Abbott govt has massively improved employment and the biggest drop in unemployment in 35 years.


they are your only two choices and both suck for you.


3) figures look dodgy and should be taken with a grain of salt


both figures...  you mean 1)
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #13 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:44am
 
Dnarever wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:34am:
Quote:
Market economists pointed to changes in the questionnaire used in the survey, which were introduced in July. Among them was the introduction of a question asking whether people were ­starting a small business, and this might be skewing the survey.


I would think it obvious that if this question is added and a yes response is considered to be employed then we have a substantial change in the method which would result in at a minimum a stabilisation of employment numbers.


Quote:
“There were no methodological changes made in August that would ­explain the significant increase in part-time employment.”


But there is a recent change in methodology which would hold full time employment higher than would otherwise have been the case. Increasing part time employment may have been balance against loss of full time employment as has been the consistent trend but with the loss of full time employment made to look better than it would have been previously measured to be the result could be a record improvement in appearance.

At this point I believe that time will tell the story, we need more numbers.

At this time we have two consecutive diametrically opposed results - Houston we have a problem - I would not  advise blindly trusting either number. I suspect that they are both wrong.

Was the first high reading an anomaly ? Was the latest reading an anomaly ?

We had a record jump followed by a record reduction which means that over the three reading period we are still at the same point we started from - effectively nothing has happened.

 



the likely answer is that lat months 6.4% was wrong and this months figure corrects it.  it also happens in polling sometimes when one figure is quite different to the previous one but for no real reason.

so can you all take back you idiotic comments on Abbott now we know that the 6.4% was wrong?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Economists Slam ABS Over Wild Job Figures
Reply #14 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:55am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:44am:
Dnarever wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:34am:
Quote:
Market economists pointed to changes in the questionnaire used in the survey, which were introduced in July. Among them was the introduction of a question asking whether people were ­starting a small business, and this might be skewing the survey.


I would think it obvious that if this question is added and a yes response is considered to be employed then we have a substantial change in the method which would result in at a minimum a stabilisation of employment numbers.


Quote:
“There were no methodological changes made in August that would ­explain the significant increase in part-time employment.”


But there is a recent change in methodology which would hold full time employment higher than would otherwise have been the case. Increasing part time employment may have been balance against loss of full time employment as has been the consistent trend but with the loss of full time employment made to look better than it would have been previously measured to be the result could be a record improvement in appearance.

At this point I believe that time will tell the story, we need more numbers.

At this time we have two consecutive diametrically opposed results - Houston we have a problem - I would not  advise blindly trusting either number. I suspect that they are both wrong.

Was the first high reading an anomaly ? Was the latest reading an anomaly ?

We had a record jump followed by a record reduction which means that over the three reading period we are still at the same point we started from - effectively nothing has happened.

 



the likely answer is that lat months 6.4% was wrong and this months figure corrects it.  it also happens in polling sometimes when one figure is quite different to the previous one but for no real reason.

so can you all take back you idiotic comments on Abbott now we know that the 6.4% was wrong?


I don't see why that would mean that Abbott isn't a dope?

I also do not see you retracting your comments about how well Abbott has done on job creation, I would think that it works both ways ?

You seem to forget that even 6.1% is not a good result, it's just the previous poor result looking a bit better than what appeared to be a really terrible outcome.

A bit of a spanner in the works in terms of our conclusion is that the ABS are saying that the improvement is based on the creation of 121,000 part time jobs ? They are saying that it is a concrete measurable indication.

You think that maybe they accidentally left them out last time and have now added them all together ? 121,000 new part time jobs in one month seems rather outlandish to me - I can not imagine what they could be or how it could happen. If it were correct it should have been fairly obvious to everyone and easily identifiable.

It's difficult to believe that 121,000 jobs can sneak into the system unobserved and unexpected ? Employment agencies come up with 121,000 jobs in a month and don't get excited about it and nobody tells anyone ?

I have no answer none of it sound believable to me.
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