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Question: Should Gina Reinhart pay more tax?

yes    
  11 (78.6%)
no    
  3 (21.4%)
not sure    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 14
« Created by: Bobby. on: Sep 15th, 2014 at 9:45am »

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Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society (Read 17618 times)
ImSpartacus2
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Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Sep 12th, 2014 at 5:44pm
 
When I was a boy growing up in the 60s there was a logic that most people accepted that's simply not discussed anymore and I can't help feeling that its because the politicians and their greedy string pullers have worked industriously to take it off the discussion list.  The logic went like this:-

The wealthier you are the more tax you should pay (esp if your wealth is inherited) because (i) you receive a far greater benefit from the society that makes your wealth possible and applying the basic principles of user pays, you owe more; (ii) The sacrifices that the wealthy few make to protect and serve the community from which they get their wealth is infinitesimal compared to the sacrifices made on a daily basis by the vastly more numerous majority in the community; and (iii) the wealthy have far more to lose then the rest of us if society collapsed. 

I say this logic was commonly discussed when I was a boy but in truth its been around for millennia and seems only to have disappeared from the popular discourse in the last 30 years or so.  I think its time it started to be openly discussed again.      
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« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2014 at 5:47am by ImSpartacus2 »  
 
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cods
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #1 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 6:00pm
 
do you own your own home? your own car.. do you have superannuation..? do you have money in the bank...lovely if you have any of those..

we had not one of those when I was growing up..my mum and dad didnt leave me a thing..nup not even a brass farthing as the old saying went..but I will certainly be leaving my kids my home and car and any money that might be left in the bank..a bit more than I ever got... I worked for it. along with my husband we went without to pay for every day things
didnt occur to us to say how about the so called RICH paying more so I can pay less...today more people own their own homes than ever before...are they rich????????.. should they be penalised because they put their money into their homes and not down the pub....I dont know any more....in my mums day no one owned their own homes it was unheard of...

you sound as if you resent anyone that had frugal parents who invested their money wisely..
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BigOl64
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #2 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 6:28pm
 
cods wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 6:00pm:
you sound as if you resent anyone that had frugal parents who invested their money wisely..





Just a typical lefty, 'everyone owes me mentality'.


They just whinge and whinge, doing frig all for themselves, like little chldren demanding more cake.


Friggen pathetic


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longweekend58
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 6:35pm
 
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 5:44pm:
When I was a boy growing up in the 60s there was a logic that most people accepted that's simply not discussed anymore and I can't help feeling that its because the politicians and their greedy string pullers have worked industriously to take it off the discussion list.  The logic went like this:-

The wealthier you are the more tax you should pay (esp if your wealth is inherited) because (i) you receive a far greater benefit from the society that makes your wealth possible and applying the basic principles of user pays, you owe more; (ii) The sacrifices that the wealthy few make to protect and serve the community from which they get their wealth is infinitesimal compared to the sacrifices made on a daily basis by the vastly more numerous majority in the community; and (iii) the wealthy have far more to lose then the rest of us if society collapsed. 

I say this logic was commonly discussed when I was a boy but in truth its been around for millennia and seems only to have disappeared from the popular discourse in the last 30 years or so.  I think its time it started to be openly discussed again.      



Ive heard this crap from the usual loser group.  I listened to one welfare dependent loser complain that I could afford to buy a new care and he couldn't.  I paid 20 times his tax on 4 times his sslary...not enough????
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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George_Orhell
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #4 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 7:37pm
 
As usual leftard hate for anybody who is successful through hard work, either in their own business, at their career, in their professional life, or even in their personal life.

I smacking detest that mentality!
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Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
"Holy Sh!t ... What a Ride!"
 
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #5 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:50pm
 
cods wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 6:00pm:
do you own your own home? your own car.. do you have superannuation..? do you have money in the bank...lovely if you have any of those..

we had not one of those when I was growing up..my mum and dad didnt leave me a thing..nup not even a brass farthing as the old saying went..but I will certainly be leaving my kids my home and car and any money that might be left in the bank..a bit more than I ever got... I worked for it. along with my husband we went without to pay for every day things
didnt occur to us to say how about the so called RICH paying more so I can pay less...today more people own their own homes than ever before...are they rich????????.. should they be penalised because they put their money into their homes and not down the pub....I dont know any more....in my mums day no one owned their own homes it was unheard of...

you sound as if you resent anyone that had frugal parents who invested their money wisely..
OK, is there any chance that if we have this discussion you might do away with the hysterical rant and exaggerated accusations about me wanting to "penalising you for putting money in your home" and how "I must hate frugal parents" and deal with the points that were actually made in the OP. 

You know of course that at the moment we have a progressive taxation system precisely because the belief has been up till now that those who have done better out of the social arrangements should be prepared to put that little bit more back in.  Are you opposed to that completely or not completely and if so why. Having said that there are many in much higher economic brackets then us who pay less and sometimes not even any tax at all. Does that trouble you or not and if so why. Now as I say you can go off hysterically and avoid a rational discussion or we could actually teach each other about why we believe the different things we believe. 


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ImSpartacus2
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #6 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 8:52pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 6:28pm:
cods wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 6:00pm:
you sound as if you resent anyone that had frugal parents who invested their money wisely..





Just a typical lefty, 'everyone owes me mentality'.


They just whinge and whinge, doing frig all for themselves, like little chldren demanding more cake.


Friggen pathetic


If you deal with the points made in the OP I will be most pleased to have a discussion with you
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #7 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 9:00pm
 
cods wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 6:00pm:
do you own your own home? your own car.. do you have superannuation..? do you have money in the bank...lovely if you have any of those..

we had not one of those when I was growing up..my mum and dad didnt leave me a thing..nup not even a brass farthing as the old saying went..but I will certainly be leaving my kids my home and car and any money that might be left in the bank..a bit more than I ever got... I worked for it. along with my husband we went without to pay for every day things
didnt occur to us to say how about the so called RICH paying more so I can pay less...today more people own their own homes than ever before...are they rich????????.. should they be penalised because they put their money into their homes and not down the pub....I dont know any more....in my mums day no one owned their own homes it was unheard of...

you sound as if you resent anyone that had frugal parents who invested their money wisely..


cods - and you are a better person for .........."....will certainly be leaving my kids my home and car and any money that might be left in the bank..a bit more than I ever got... I worked for it. along with my husband we went without to pay for every day things .........."

And that's how it has always worked.
Earn more than you spend and life is good.
Spend more than you earn, and you are under pressure.
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Modern Classic Right Wing
 
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #8 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 9:14pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 6:35pm:
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 5:44pm:
When I was a boy growing up in the 60s there was a logic that most people accepted that's simply not discussed anymore and I can't help feeling that its because the politicians and their greedy string pullers have worked industriously to take it off the discussion list.  The logic went like this:-

The wealthier you are the more tax you should pay (esp if your wealth is inherited) because (i) you receive a far greater benefit from the society that makes your wealth possible and applying the basic principles of user pays, you owe more; (ii) The sacrifices that the wealthy few make to protect and serve the community from which they get their wealth is infinitesimal compared to the sacrifices made on a daily basis by the vastly more numerous majority in the community; and (iii) the wealthy have far more to lose then the rest of us if society collapsed. 

I say this logic was commonly discussed when I was a boy but in truth its been around for millennia and seems only to have disappeared from the popular discourse in the last 30 years or so.  I think its time it started to be openly discussed again.      



Ive heard this crap from the usual loser group.  I listened to one welfare dependent loser complain that I could afford to buy a new care and he couldn't.  I paid 20 times his tax on 4 times his sslary...not enough????


Yes, yes non of which addresses any of the propositions set out in the op. You might want to give that a try if you have an interest in a real discussion on this issue.
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Dnarever
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #9 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 9:16pm
 
Quote:
The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes


Your obviously not a conservative politician.
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #10 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 9:18pm
 
George_Orhell wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 7:37pm:
As usual leftard hate for anybody who is successful through hard work, either in their own business, at their career, in their professional life, or even in their personal life.

I smacking detest that mentality!
Ahh yes you work harder therefor you deserve more. Ask the guy next to you and he'll say the same thing. Yep the age of entitlement is certainly not over.    
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #11 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 9:44pm
 
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 5:44pm:
When I was a boy growing up in the 60s there was a logic that most people accepted that's simply not discussed anymore and I can't help feeling that its because the politicians and their greedy string pullers have worked industriously to take it off the discussion list.  The logic went like this:-

The wealthier you are the more tax you should pay (esp if your wealth is inherited) because (i) you receive a far greater benefit from the society that makes your wealth possible and applying the basic principles of user pays, you owe more; (ii) The sacrifices that the wealthy few make to protect and serve the community from which they get their wealth is infinitesimal compared to the sacrifices made on a daily basis by the vastly more numerous majority in the community; and (iii) the wealthy have far more to lose then the rest of us if society collapsed. 

I say this logic was commonly discussed when I was a boy but in truth its been around for millennia and seems only to have disappeared from the popular discourse in the last 30 years or so.  I think its time it started to be openly discussed again.      



Taxing the income of worker at 30%, but taxing the income of the rich at 90%, is inequitable.

It is akin to lawful stealing, imo.

It is TAKING more of what the wealthy have, because they have it.

It is socialism and communism.



Steal from the wealthy [i.e. steal from those who have wealth because they are resourceful and industrious], and distribute those resources and wealth [created by others], to the poor - because of their need.


And it is the exact same system that Sharia promotes and enforces.

Stealing with threats....

Christians in the Caliphate: The Islamic State (Part 4)
              goto 6m 40s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGQwTOsh__0


Such a system, OF STEALING THE WEALTH OF OTHERS, has no real long-term beneficial effect in a society.

It produces dependency, and a corrupt governance authority.








+++


God is a capitalist.

Proof of that fact is 'littered' throughout the OT bible, and is revealed even in many of the parables of Jesus.


n.b.
Jesus DID NOT say;

"Steal from the wealthy, and give to the poor."



Matthew 19:21
Jesus said........go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.i
God does encourage us all, to be kind to the poor,
         and to be generous to those who are worse off than ourselves.

But the Matthew 25:14 - 30 parable suggests, very directly, that God is not a socialist.

And the parables which Jesus told, suggest, that God does not hold with socialist ideals [which is in fact thievery, as a means 'to help the poor'].




Is God a capitalist ?

Matthew 25:24
......he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:



Do Jesus parables suggest that God is a capitalist ?

Matthew 21:33
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34  And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it......





p.s.
Yadda is not a wealthy person.
I am in a low tax bracket.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Jasin
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #12 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 9:44pm
 

I think the point of this Topic is how Australia was once a thriving Nation that dispensed the 'Wealth' amongst the MANY, rather than the 'few' - as is the case in many 'Capitalist' nations.

We were almost akin to Communism, but more of a success.

Alas, we now live in an era where there are those that 'exploit' this system.
The Aussie Battler will gratefully accept the 'Social Security' safety net and make the most of it, while the Houso will just ride it into the dirt.
The Aussie Achiever would find himself more 'socially' rewarded.

I've seen experienced Rich who fall into it and those who 'earn' it. There is really no 'Black or White' to this as there are so many variations, let alone much like there are States - to this Nation.

Personally though, I do believe that there is a 'fear' emerging through 'Political' Australia that the most richest and powerful Australian will
NOT
be a Political figurehead.
A 'Tall Poppy' problem if ever there was one.  Wink
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #13 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 9:49pm
 
Not everyone in low to middle income, or even welfare, for that matter, is in the situation because they're too lazy to do something with their life. Sometimes they don't have a choice -- how would you feel if your well paying job was cut because someone above you decided, "I made 2 million dollars less than I did the year previously, therefore I need to cut some jobs."? (Example).
This puts you into a situation where you will run out of money very quickly, especially if you are paying off a loan or credit card.
If we're talking about despising mentalities here, the "You're not rich therefore you are a lazy/stupid welfare leech with an entitlement complex" is also a disgusting assumption. I'm not saying there aren't people out there who are like that, because there definitely is.
This is the same attitude as "all muslims are terrorists" or "all catholics are pedophiles."
Sorry, this has nothing to do with the topic but I just thought I'd put this out there. Carry on.
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Nothing would be what it is,
Because everything would be what it isn't.
And contrary-wise - what it is, it wouldn't be.
And what it wouldn't be, it would.
You see?

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ImSpartacus2
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Re: The Rich Owe Us And Should Pay Their Taxes
Reply #14 - Sep 12th, 2014 at 9:54pm
 
For those of you interested in discussing this rationally, you might be interested to know that even the multi multi billionair Warren Buffett argues for a progressive taxation system on the grounds that prosperous Americans owe part of their success to other citizens. Have a listen to what he has to say in an interview on CNN Money


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