Australian Politics Forum - At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi

Yadda

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At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Sep 14^th, 2014 at 9:34pm

At last, the claim that 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' - is beginning to be ridiculed by increasing numbers of American citizens!

At last, the claim that is being promoted, by Western politicians like Tony Abbott, and Barrack Obama, and David Cameron, that the ISLAMIC State [ISIS] has nothing to do with ISLAM, is being publicly ridiculed by increasing numbers of American citizens [and by the citizens of other nations too!].

Wake up Tony!!!!!

Before you are the last - RAT - to get off that boat!!!!!!

Quote:

Obama’s “not Islamic” Islamic State claim ridiculed
Robert Spencer Sep 12, 2014

As well it should be. The disconnect between the statements of the administration — and the government and media establishment in general — and reality is increasingly large, and Americans are noticing in increasing numbers. “Obama’s ‘not Islamic’ Islamic State Claim Ridiculed,” IPT News, September 11, 2014:

President Obama’s assertion Wednesday night that the Islamic State terrorist group “is not ‘Islamic'” is drawing derision from a number of quarters.

....“Which will come first, flying cars and vacations to Mars, or a simple acknowledgment that beliefs guide behavior and that certain religious ideas—jihad, martyrdom, blasphemy, apostasy—reliably lead to oppression and murder?”

....The Quran includes numerous passages encouraging violent jihad and inspiring hatred of non-believers, Harris notes. Robert Spencer offers specific examples here, and asks why the Islamic State has become such a magnet for wannabe jihadists if it was not seen as inherently Islamic.

But instead of acknowledging those verses and debating their modern application, the president used a nationally televised speech to act as if they do not exist.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/09/obamas-not-islamic-islamic-state-claim-ridicul...

FURTHER INFO, a recent YT video on this exact same issue.....

Bill Maher Battles Charlie Rose on Why Islam is More Dangerous than Other Religions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjInNxIwfRw

SOURCE DOCUMENT, for Bill Maher / Charlie Rose YT....
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/09/bill-maher-to-claim-that-islam-is-like-other-r...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40710 Gender:	Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi Reply #1 - Sep 14^th, 2014 at 9:45pm yes, but publically what can they say ?
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Yadda

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Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Reply #2 - Sep 14^th, 2014 at 9:46pm

MORE, ON THE ABSURD CLAIM, THAT THE BEHAVIOUR OF ISIS, HAS 'NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM'....

Quote:

Obama: The Islamic State “is not ‘Islamic'”
Robert Spencer Sep 10, 2014

[citations from the Koran are given within the article.]

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/09/obama-the-islamic-state-is-not-islamic

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Reply #3 - Sep 14^th, 2014 at 9:55pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 9:45pm:

yes, but publically what can they say ?

I would have thought that speaking, BROADCASTING! the truth [about what ISLAM is], would be a good option.

sprint, why does everyone want to avoid confronting the truth ?

Are we afraid of the consequences, of confronting the truth about what ISLAM is ?

ISLAM is a cancer!

Deal with it [confront it], or die.

The spectre of ISLAM, is a test - for all of the peoples of the world.

A spiritual test.

Appeasing [those who are] evil, won't make the evil go away.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 40938	Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi Reply #4 - Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:07pm Y, why was Robert Spencer banned from travel to the UK? Why should we consider anything such an extremist as him publishes as having any veracity?
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Yadda

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Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Reply #5 - Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:47pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:07pm:

Y, why was Robert Spencer banned from travel to the UK?

Brian,

That is easy.

Because the UK moslem community protested to the UK government, when it was publicised that Robert Spencer was to travel to the UK to speak on ISLAM and about the impact of large numbers of locally resident moslems upon their host Western societies.

And the UK government chose to ban Robert Spencer from travel to the UK, to appease the UK moslem community.

Quote:

Why should we consider anything such an extremist as him publishes as having any veracity? Roll Eyes

Brian,

I always like to enquire, and to test for myself, whether the stated opinions of people [e.g. like Robert Spencer] have any veracity and credibility.

Dictionary;
veracity = = conformity to facts; accuracy. habitual truthfulness.

Dictionary;
credible = = able to be believed; convincing.

Brian,

Is it your contention that freedom of expression, and freedom of speech, so as to allow all people to engage in public debate about contentious issues should be banned or 'restricted' ?

IMAGE.....

"Freedom of expression GO TO HELL!"

QUESTION;
Why should Robert Spencer have been banned from entering the UK, on a speaking tour, on the issue of ISLAM, and its effect upon Western societies ?

Is it because to allow Robert Spencer to enter the UK [on a speaking tour], would have 'upset' moslems in the UK ?

And was that a valid reason to ban Robert Spencer from entering the UK ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross

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Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Reply #6 - Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:57pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:47pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:07pm:

Y, why was Robert Spencer banned from travel to the UK?

Brian,

That is easy.

Because the UK moslem community protested to the UK government, when it was publicised that Robert Spencer was to travel to the UK to speak on ISLAM and about the impact of large numbers of locally resident moslems upon their host Western societies.

And the UK government chose to ban Robert Spencer from travel to the UK, to appease the UK moslem community.

So, then, what do you think of the Australian Government's decision to ban David Irving from travelling to Australia?

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Yadda

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Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Reply #7 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:04am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:57pm:

So, then, what do you think of the Australian Government's decision to ban David Irving from travelling to Australia?

IMO, it was a mistake.

I'm in favour of EVERYONE being able to express their opinion.

Otherwise, how can folly be readily exposed ?

Yadda said.....
Quote:

FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS SELF REGULATING

Open societies do not fear the opinions of fools.
....they rather, EXPOSE and laugh at folly!

In any free and open society, where debate is free and open, if a 'position' is absurd, if an 'argument' is absurd,
...then the debater is [often] condemned to all, WITH HIS OWN WORDS.

And that result [i.e. the exposure of folly] is THE VERY FUNCTION, of free and open debate.

Free and open debate is meant to be A CONTEST OF IDEAS!
....where every folly is revealed.

And open debate is healthy, to all general freedoms in a society.

Whereas, lies are easily concealed in closed societies,
....*because* these closed societies are places where lies, and falsehood,
....ARE NEVER EXPOSED TO SCRUTINY, OR SPOKEN TRUTH.

IMAGE.....

"Freedom of expression GO TO HELL!"

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross

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Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Reply #8 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:10am

Yadda wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:04am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:57pm:

So, then, what do you think of the Australian Government's decision to ban David Irving from travelling to Australia?

IMO, it was mistaken.

So, "appeasing" the Jewish community was wrong?

Quote:

I'm in favour of EVERYONE being able to express their opinion.

Otherwise, how can folly be exposed ?

So, Robert Spencer's views are folly and should be exposed?

Why do you therefore rail so much against the Islamists expressing their opinions?

Tell me, Y, do you think elected Governments have a responsibility to listen to and comply with the wishes of the electorate or sections of it or should they ignore what the voters are saying and merely do what they want?

Also, do you think that Government has a responsibility to maintain good order and social equilibrium?

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Yadda

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Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Reply #9 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:20am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:10am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:04am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:57pm:

So, then, what do you think of the Australian Government's decision to ban David Irving from travelling to Australia?

IMO, it was mistaken.

So, "appeasing" the Jewish community was wrong?

Yes it was, in that case, imo!!!

David Irving should have been allowed to travel to Australia, and allowed to express his views, imo.

Regarding moslems expressing their views....

These people [below] were inciting moslems, to murder other members of the Australian community, imo.

If i had the power to do so, i would have had them arrested, and if they had been brought into my court of law, as a judge i would have sentenced them to public hanging, ....every last one of them.

IMAGE...

Sydney, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, religious bigots, 'demonstrating', just how 'peaceful' and tolerant ISLAM and moslems really are - towards those who don't hold with the views of ISIS of ISLAM and moslems.

Moslems on a Sydney street, openly demanding their right to exercise their 'freedom of religion',
.....the 'religious' right to kill people who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross

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Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Reply #10 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:29am

Yadda wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:20am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:10am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:04am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 11:57pm:

So, then, what do you think of the Australian Government's decision to ban David Irving from travelling to Australia?

IMO, it was mistaken.

So, "appeasing" the Jewish community was wrong?

Yes it was, in that case, imo!!!

David Irving should have been allowed to travel to Australia, and allowed to express his views, imo.

Interesting. So, David Irving, a convicted liar should have been allowed to disseminate his views without regard to the wishes of a section of the Australian electorate?

I note you didn't answer the other questions, Y. Why? Roll Eyes

I note your hypocrisy though. Holocaust Denial is OK but Muslims expressing their views is a capital offence? Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Reply #11 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:41am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:10am:

So, Robert Spencer's views are folly and should be exposed?

What folly are you referring to ?

Quote:

Why do you therefore rail so much against the Islamists expressing their opinions?

I quite happy for moslems to express views like these [image below] on 'the moslem street', and in a moslem nation [but NOT, here in Australia!]....

It is INCITEMENT TO MURDER, imo.

IMAGE...

Quote:

Tell me, Y, do you think elected Governments have a responsibility to listen to and comply with the wishes of the electorate or sections of it or should they ignore what the voters are saying and merely do what they want?

I believe that an elected Government should allow citizens to behave in every way which is deemed [is determined in law] to be lawful.

And that serious criminals [and persistent lawbreakers] should be permanently removed/separated from open society.

Quote:

Also, do you think that Government has a responsibility to maintain good order and social equilibrium?

See my last answer, above.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross

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Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Reply #12 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 6:22pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:41am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 12:10am:

So, Robert Spencer's views are folly and should be exposed?

What folly are you referring to ?

His Islamophobic rantings?

Quote:

Quote:

Why do you therefore rail so much against the Islamists expressing their opinions?

I quite happy for moslems to express views like these [image below] on 'the moslem street', and in a moslem nation [but NOT, here in Australia!]....

Ah, so it's OK for David Irving to express his Holocaust denial viewpoint but not for Muslims to express their distasteful views in Australia? You don't perceive that as being a tad inconsistent or is it in your view OK to offend Jews but not OK to offend non-Muslims?

Quote:

It is INCITEMENT TO MURDER, imo.

It could be construed as such. Why haven't you complained to the Police and had them arrested, Yada? I'd support your efforts in the courts to raise a test case. They'd be much better than Sprint's proposed Pogrom. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Tell me, Y, do you think elected Governments have a responsibility to listen to and comply with the wishes of the electorate or sections of it or should they ignore what the voters are saying and merely do what they want?

I believe that an elected Government should allow citizens to behave in every way which is deemed [is determined in law] to be lawful.

Right. So, Muslims voicing their opinion was determined to be lawful apparently, as no arrests were made over the language of the protesters, just their actions. So, why are you claiming they were inciting people to murder?

Quote:

And that serious criminals [and persistent lawbreakers] should be permanently removed/separated from open society.

So, you would ban David Irving then from entering Australia as he has been proven to be a "persistent lawbreaker" overseas?

Quote:

Quote:

Also, do you think that Government has a responsibility to maintain good order and social equilibrium?

See my last answer, above.

I can take that to be yes, then?

So you have no problem with the Government then banning David Irving or Robert Spencer from entering (respectively) Australia or the UK on the basis to allow them in would be disruptive to "good order and social equilibrium?"

You seem to be contradicting yourself, Y. Perhaps you need to go away and have a rethink of your position on the issue of Freedom of Speech? Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Reply #13 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 7:48pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 6:22pm:

You seem to be contradicting yourself, Y.

Perhaps you need to go away and have a rethink of your position on the issue of Freedom of Speech? Roll Eyes

brian,

I am not contradicting myself.

I know what my position on Freedom of Speech is.

Freedom of Speech, is good [where it is NOT abused, to include, for example, incitement to violence].

Regarding Freedom of Speech....

These people [below] were NOT exercising Freedom of Speech.

They were inciting people, to commit murder!

IMAGE...

Sydney, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, religious bigots, 'demonstrating', just how 'peaceful' and tolerant ISLAM and moslems really are - towards those who don't hold with the views of ISIS of ISLAM and moslems.

Moslems on a Sydney street, openly demanding their right to exercise their 'freedom of religion',
.....the 'religious' right to kill people who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

This [below] generally expresses [and demonstrates graphically] the regard that all moslems have toward the right to Freedom of Speech.

IMAGE.....

"Freedom of expression GO TO HELL!"

....that eventuality is not not possible.

Why so ?

Because HELL, will be the abode of ALL moslems.

And moslems and Freedom of Speech, cannot abide in the same house!

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross

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Re: At last, 'ISIS is not ISLAMIC' claim is being ridi
Reply #14 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 9:10pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 7:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 6:22pm:

You seem to be contradicting yourself, Y.

Perhaps you need to go away and have a rethink of your position on the issue of Freedom of Speech? Roll Eyes

brian,

I am not contradicting myself.

Actually, you are, as I've demonstrated.

Quote:

I know what my position on Freedom of Speech is.

Freedom of Speech, is good [where it is NOT abused, to include, for example, incitement to violence].

Excellent, excellent, Y. Well considered. I claim David Irving (who, unlike you, I have actually heard speak) and Robert Spencer (who I admit I haven't but going on what I've read) incite others to violence. Therefore they don't deserve freedom of speech any more than those Muslims who incite others to violence, right?

Quote:

Regarding Freedom of Speech....

These people [below] were NOT exercising Freedom of Speech.

They were inciting people, to commit murder!

IMAGE...
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/09/15/3637564/art-protest3-620x349.jpg
Sydney, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, religious bigots, 'demonstrating', just how 'peaceful' and tolerant ISLAM and moslems really are - towards those who don't hold with the views of ISIS of ISLAM and moslems.

Moslems on a Sydney street, openly demanding their right to exercise their 'freedom of religion',
.....the 'religious' right to kill people who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

Couldn't agree more, Y. However, those were only a small number of Muslims. The majority disagreed with their views and made that evident after the demonstration had finished. Right?

However, if you think they should be silenced then so should David Irving and Robert Spencer because they are inciting violence, right?

Quote:

This [below] generally expresses [and demonstrates graphically] the regard that all moslems have toward the right to Freedom of Speech.

IMAGE.....
http://openparachute.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/freedom-of-expression-go-to-hel...

All Muslims, Y? How do you know that? Have you canvassed all Muslims? Really? Or is this merely your prejudiced opinion? I know many Muslims and they definitely do believe in freedom of speech. Did you ask them? if not, why not?

Quote:

"Freedom of expression GO TO HELL!"

....that eventuality is not not possible.

Why so ?

Because HELL, will be the abode of ALL moslems.

Really? Well, apart from the fact I don't accept the existence of either heaven and hell, how do you know, Y? Have you visited hell and held a census? Or is this merely your usual prejudice and Islamophobia coming to the fore?

Quote:

And moslems and Freedom of Speech, cannot abide in the same house!

According to whom? You? You don't think you're a touch biased?

Tell me, what is your attitude towards Hindus? Buddhists? Jews? They all going to end up in hell as well? Roll Eyes

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