Why do we call it ‘Islamic State’?

Yadda wrote on Sep 27^th, 2014 at 10:42am:


A good reference, Y. Finally, after all these years, you’re getting to the bottom of your claims. And they are compelling. They are, I believe, the verses ISIL and other fundamentalists use to justify their carnage.

But they’re not contextualised. They’re the battle cries of a community leader in a besieged city. They are calls for self-defence in a specific time and place. They do not justify ISIL’s forced conversions and genocide. No doubt ISIL use such quotes as justification, but they don’t square with the rest of the Quran, a book ISIL have attempted to edit to reframe the above quotes and justify their grab for brutal, worldly supremacy.

I’m not saying this, Muslim leaders themselves are saying it. To attempt to justify torture, killing and forced conversion of defenceless civilians is against Islamic teachings taken from the Quran. It’s a mockery of Islam as Muslim leaders themselves argue. The entire literalist tradition is against Islam. Applying 8th century battles to modern life is useful only as a metaphorical reference point. Again, not me, but Muslims themselves. Muslims have, almost universally, condemned the actions of ISIL. Muslim states have distanced themselves and their foreign.policy using the clearest possible terms. Five Muslim states have engaged in air strikes. A ground war, I believe, is almost inevitable.

Who’s right?

I would think most people would support mainstream Muslims in what now appears to be a clash within Islam itself. This isn’t Sunni verses Shi’ite, but those divisions are relevant. It’s a battle between dumb, literalist fundamentalism and peace. It’s not for me to pick a side, but I know which side I’d like to succeed.

You?

I just read your WikiIslam piece. Good writing.

But it made me realize that you really do believe these crackpot ideas. You’re on exactly the same page as Yadda, and all from.a chat with one Muslim: Abu.

It’s all in your piece - Abu’s take on Western imperialism, Abu’s fundamentalism, and even Abu ignoring you when.you became too much.

Your take on a people from dozens of different ethnicities, languages and countries comes down to the views of Abu. Have you ever been to a Muslim country? Eaten with a Muslim family? Been to a Muslim school or mosque?

Your entire world view on Muslims lacks the insight learned from experience. It’s an internet thing - just like all those kids going off to join the headhackers. If you knew any Muslims or went to any mosques, you’d find out that they’re very tame, conservative places. The sermons are just as boring as the Anglican or Catholic ones. Radical Islam is so far from the mosques and family life of Australian Muslims, it’s hilarious to hear your Yadda-like take on Islam. It’s so far from the truth.

Anyway, something tells me you enjoy having a threat to Freeedom, so I won’t try to stop you having a good time. If you really wanted to know more about the source of Islam (the Jew’s gold, etc), you’d pick out a few books and get cracking, but you don’t. You’re happy to trot out a story you read years ago on the internet. You’re happy to have Abu. And you’re happy to cover up your lack of insight with the same old myths, rumours and Abu’s non-answers.

It’s good to be happy, no? It is a jolly world, after all.

Muslims whose women are not covered up but go about their lives freely and equally, who share a bottle of wine over dinner, who are intellectually curious about things outside islam, dress and speek without islamic affectations, who work and otherwise participate in the civic and social life of the country, who actively avoid muslim ghettos - they are no threat to anyone and are respected and appreciated like averyone else who likewise fits in and contributes.

More on wine, women and Islam:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/09/26/men-without-women/

What do you think they are doing over there Gandalf? Rescuing abandoned puppies?

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 9:18pm:


I’m.Karnal, FD. Pleased to meet you.

What do.ASIO think they’re doing?

They say they don’t know.

Maybe we should make something up, eh?

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:02pm:


Oh, I know.

Karnal wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 9:47am:


Correct.

It's not a 'personal experience' thing which exposes you only to staged events for public consumption, or the acquaintance of a totally unrepresentative dozen or so urbane Muslims who ignore most of the nasty bits in the Koran.

Meet most of Hitler's civilian population and you'd correctly believe here were a fairly decent lot who just wanted to get on with life and not go to war.

It's always the ideological activists who are the problem. You can sup with, and break bread with any number of Muslims who will come across as okay people ... but the fact remains that their source of moral inspiration is the same source as that which inspires the jihadis to go on the rampage, and from which they draw their divine authority.

It's patently childish to pretend you 'know' Muslims better than someone who has access to the internet simply because you've sat down to a meal of tabouli with a few of them. 

The message to immigrant Muslims since the internet, and mobile phone cameras, and non-PC professional reporting, and reality shows such as Andrew Bolt puts on ~ is "You can run but you can't hide".

Sooner or later your dissembling for window-dressing effect will be exposed as a sham and a fraud.

School after school in the UK's second largest city was found to be getting taken over by Muslim activists on a mission to Islamise ordinary British kids to the ways of Sharia extremism.

The Muslim underground in Britain is a festering rats nest of enemies against the West.

link

Any day of the week I'll chose the internet for my Reality Checks as to what the Muslims are up to that we should all be worried about.

I doubt very much that Australia's prime minister tells his ASIO and AFP chiefs to leave their computers and go have lunch with a few nice Muslim families in order to learn what's really going on in the Muslim community that our security personnel should be aware of.