Australian Politics Forum - More Islamophobic attacks?

\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: More Islamophobic attacks? Reply #510 - May 7^th, 2015 at 2:53pm Tasmanian man jailed for assaulting 15yo Afghan asylum seeker
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: More Islamophobic attacks? Reply #511 - May 7^th, 2015 at 2:59pm
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #512 - May 7^th, 2015 at 3:04pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 3:39pm:

Soren wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 2:09pm:

The question has always been about examples of objective criticism that is not Islamophobic - it was never about what Gandalf personally likes or dislikes.

What are you talking about - of course it is: thats my "objective criticism that is not Islamophobic" - which is exactly what you were asking for.

Its an example of being critical of issues pertaining to Islam/muslims without resorting to blatant lies. Hell, you don't even have to be objective - be as un-objective as you like - just don't spew lies. Simple really.

So if, like you, I say simply say that "I completely reject" every tenet of Islam - that's OK, that's not I slamophobic. I don't have to say why I reject it all, just saying 'I don't like it' is sufficient. But if I provide reasons for completely rejecting Islam I am likely to stray into Islamophobic territory because giving concrete, critical reasons is Islamophobic lies.

Back to top

IP Logged

|dev|null

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male

Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #513 - May 7^th, 2015 at 3:31pm

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 3:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 3:39pm:

Soren wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 2:09pm:

The question has always been about examples of objective criticism that is not Islamophobic - it was never about what Gandalf personally likes or dislikes.

What are you talking about - of course it is: thats my "objective criticism that is not Islamophobic" - which is exactly what you were asking for.

Its an example of being critical of issues pertaining to Islam/muslims without resorting to blatant lies. Hell, you don't even have to be objective - be as un-objective as you like - just don't spew lies. Simple really.

So if, like you, I say simply say that "I completely reject" every tenet of Islam - that's OK, that's not I slamophobic. I don't have to say why I reject it all, just saying 'I don't like it' is sufficient. But if I provide reasons for completely rejecting Islam I am likely to stray into Islamophobic territory because giving concrete, critical reasons is Islamophobic lies.

Why not try it and we'll tell you if you're being Islamophobic Soren? Could be interesting to start from zero and work out exactly why you're Islamophobic! Here, just lie down on the coach and make yourself comfortable Soren! Grin

Back to top

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #514 - May 7^th, 2015 at 4:43pm

Soren wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 3:56pm:

No. I was accused of not being objective by Gandy, Mutha, Brain etc when I criticise Islam and was laffed at when I cited an article saying that Islam can be completely rejected for good, rational reasons.

You lot reflexively label any and all criticism of Islam as 'Islamophobic' but then say that objective and reasonable criticism of Islam is possible and you are also on the side of reason.
SO I am asking you for examples of rational and objective, non-Islamophobic ways of being critical of Islam.
I am also saying that, just as it was not enough for Pauline Hanson to say 'I don't like it' it's not enough for Gandy to say what he doesn't like.

I am asking for examples which you guys accept as both rational, objective and non-Islamophobic criticisms of Islam.

I tried to make it easy for you S - by giving you an exceedingly simple criteria which I'll repeat for the nth time: anything that is not based on lies about muslims or Islam.

Lie:

noun
1.
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
Synonyms: prevarication, falsification.
Antonyms: truth.
2.
something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture:
His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3.
an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.
4.
the charge or accusation of telling a lie:
He flung the lie back at his accusers.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

mothra

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 35522
Gender: female

Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #515 - May 7^th, 2015 at 5:21pm

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 3:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 3:39pm:

Soren wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 2:09pm:

The question has always been about examples of objective criticism that is not Islamophobic - it was never about what Gandalf personally likes or dislikes.

What are you talking about - of course it is: thats my "objective criticism that is not Islamophobic" - which is exactly what you were asking for.

Its an example of being critical of issues pertaining to Islam/muslims without resorting to blatant lies. Hell, you don't even have to be objective - be as un-objective as you like - just don't spew lies. Simple really.

So if, like you, I say simply say that "I completely reject" every tenet of Islam - that's OK, that's not I slamophobic. I don't have to say why I reject it all, just saying 'I don't like it' is sufficient. But if I provide reasons for completely rejecting Islam I am likely to stray into Islamophobic territory because giving concrete, critical reasons is Islamophobic lies.

If you say you "completely reject every tenet of Islam" that is not ok. That is Islamophobic. You cannot say you know every tenet to disagree with. There's bound to be something in there you think is reasonable. It only stands to reason. To assume that it is all distasteful to you without knowing it is prejudiced.

Prejudiced relating to Islam is Islamophobia.

The error you are trying to see around Soren is actually in your head. You're conflating issues and failing to see the points made to you. To add to the Islamophobia inherent in the statement about you rejecting every tenet, you also also told a lie. It is untrue that you reject every tenet of Islam for you cannot possibly know them all.

Gandalf has tried to explain to you that open and constructive criticism of Islam can only begin from a point in which no lies are the basis for discussion. That is proving itself to be true in your inability to understand simple concepts. You're just not starting in the right place.

Back to top

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

IP Logged

mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35522 Gender:	Re: More Islamophobic attacks? Reply #516 - May 7^th, 2015 at 5:24pm ... although i suspect that at least a goodly part of your belligerence is simple refusal to give ground.
Back to top	If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning. IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #517 - May 7^th, 2015 at 6:56pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 4:43pm:

Soren wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 3:56pm:

No. I was accused of not being objective by Gandy, Mutha, Brain etc when I criticise Islam and was laffed at when I cited an article saying that Islam can be completely rejected for good, rational reasons.

You lot reflexively label any and all criticism of Islam as 'Islamophobic' but then say that objective and reasonable criticism of Islam is possible and you are also on the side of reason.
SO I am asking you for examples of rational and objective, non-Islamophobic ways of being critical of Islam.
I am also saying that, just as it was not enough for Pauline Hanson to say 'I don't like it' it's not enough for Gandy to say what he doesn't like.

I am asking for examples which you guys accept as both rational, objective and non-Islamophobic criticisms of Islam.

I tried to make it easy for you S - by giving you an exceedingly simple criteria which I'll repeat for the nth time: anything that is not based on lies about muslims or Islam.

Lie:

noun
1.
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
Synonyms: prevarication, falsification.
Antonyms: truth.
2.
something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture:
His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3.
an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.
4.
the charge or accusation of telling a lie:
He flung the lie back at his accusers.

SO neither you nor the rest of your posse can think of a single example of objective, reasonable and non-Islamophobic criticism of Islam.

Back to top

IP Logged

Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 42248	Re: More Islamophobic attacks? Reply #518 - May 7^th, 2015 at 7:00pm mothra wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 5:24pm: ... although i suspect that at least a goodly part of your belligerence is simple refusal to give ground. Too true...
Back to top	Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... IP Logged

Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 42248	Re: More Islamophobic attacks? Reply #519 - May 7^th, 2015 at 7:02pm Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 6:56pm: SO neither you nor the rest of your posse can think of a single example of objective, reasonable and non-Islamophobic criticism of Islam. No, Soren, we're asking YOU for such an example. Can you provide one?
Back to top	Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: More Islamophobic attacks? Reply #520 - May 7^th, 2015 at 7:19pm Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 6:56pm: SO neither you nor the rest of your posse can think of a single example of objective, reasonable and non-Islamophobic criticism of Islam. oh FF.S
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: More Islamophobic attacks? Reply #521 - May 7^th, 2015 at 7:24pm Brian Ross wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:02pm: Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 6:56pm: SO neither you nor the rest of your posse can think of a single example of objective, reasonable and non-Islamophobic criticism of Islam. No, Soren, we're asking YOU for such an example. Can you provide one? All my posts.
Back to top	IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 42248

Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #522 - May 7^th, 2015 at 7:28pm

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:02pm:

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 6:56pm:

SO neither you nor the rest of your posse can think of a single example of objective, reasonable and non-Islamophobic criticism of Islam.

No, Soren, we're asking YOU for such an example. Can you provide one? Roll Eyes

All my posts.

Then my criticism stands. Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #523 - May 7^th, 2015 at 7:31pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:02pm:

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 6:56pm:

SO neither you nor the rest of your posse can think of a single example of objective, reasonable and non-Islamophobic criticism of Islam.

No, Soren, we're asking YOU for such an example. Can you provide one? Roll Eyes

Well, it all started with this post:

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2015 at 9:01am:

Islamophobia? That seems to me an entirely rational response to an illiberal, vindictive and frankly fascistic creed. I am not a Muslimophobe — I am well aware that enormous numbers of Muslims do not subscribe to all of the particularly unpleasant tenets of Islam as it is practised and preached today. Not all of them wish to chop your head off or stone you to death or simply imprison you for not being one of them, or for being homosexual, or Jewish, or for renouncing your faith because you’ve suddenly realised that it is illiberal, vindictive and fascistic. Not all of them believe that democracy is — much as Hitler saw it — evil, decadent and weak (and not a match for the will of Allah), or that women should be dressed in sackcloth and ashes and not allowed to be educated or to go to work. Or that non-Muslims are a lower species of human being, scarcely human beings at all — ‘cattle’, as the, uh, liberal Muslim columnist Mehdi Hassan once put it. Not all of them persecute or murder Christians, or simply ban them from worshipping their God. Not all of them believe the Holocaust didn’t happen, or that it did happen and it was a bloody good thing, all things considered. Or that freedom of speech and freedom of thought are both ludicrous concepts.

It’s the ideology I have a problem with, then, not so much the people. Although having said that, I’m not keen on those beards they all have. But that’s another issue. Lifelong pogonophobic, me.
There is no such thing as Islamophobia, of course. There are people who dislike Islam and will continue to dislike it.... And they dislike it for perfectly good, rational, reasons.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9513162/heres-everything-islamo...

The baying mob of bedwetting offense takers immediately questioned good and rational reasons - these are red rags to the likes of you Brain. Reason is an oppressive western construct to you. Karnal will hold forth about it at length any moment now.
Gandy will pretend that Allah and all his works are reasonable and not arbitrary and unfathomable.

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #524 - May 7^th, 2015 at 7:33pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:02pm:

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 6:56pm:

SO neither you nor the rest of your posse can think of a single example of objective, reasonable and non-Islamophobic criticism of Islam.

No, Soren, we're asking YOU for such an example. Can you provide one? Roll Eyes

All my posts.

Then my criticism stands. Roll Eyes

You make no criticism, Brain. You flame.

Reason and rationality to you are like garlic to a vampire. You think eye-rolling is an argument. You are that thick and that devoid of thought.

Back to top

IP Logged