Australian Politics Forum - More Islamophobic attacks?

Brian Ross

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #525 - May 7^th, 2015 at 7:59pm

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:33pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:02pm:

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 6:56pm:

SO neither you nor the rest of your posse can think of a single example of objective, reasonable and non-Islamophobic criticism of Islam.

No, Soren, we're asking YOU for such an example. Can you provide one? Roll Eyes

All my posts.

Then my criticism stands. Roll Eyes

You make no criticism, Brain. You flame.

Reason and rationality to you are like garlic to a vampire. You think eye-rolling is an argument. You are that thick and that devoid of thought.

When I see some "reason and rationality" I do not flee into my coffin, Soren. Unfortunately I haven't seen much in your posts. I see a great deal of the obverse qualities.

Whenever you are stopped through criticism of your argument, you automatically resort to ad hominem debate, attacking your opponent personally. Time you woke up to yourself. It's incredibly childish watching your posts because of how you react... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #526 - May 7^th, 2015 at 8:19pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 4:43pm:

Soren wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 3:56pm:

No. I was accused of not being objective by Gandy, Mutha, Brain etc when I criticise Islam and was laffed at when I cited an article saying that Islam can be completely rejected for good, rational reasons.

You lot reflexively label any and all criticism of Islam as 'Islamophobic' but then say that objective and reasonable criticism of Islam is possible and you are also on the side of reason.
SO I am asking you for examples of rational and objective, non-Islamophobic ways of being critical of Islam.
I am also saying that, just as it was not enough for Pauline Hanson to say 'I don't like it' it's not enough for Gandy to say what he doesn't like.

I am asking for examples which you guys accept as both rational, objective and non-Islamophobic criticisms of Islam.

I tried to make it easy for you S - by giving you an exceedingly simple criteria which I'll repeat for the nth time: anything that is not based on lies about muslims or Islam.

Lie:

noun
1.
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
Synonyms: prevarication, falsification.
Antonyms: truth.
2.
something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture:
His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3.
an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.
4.
the charge or accusation of telling a lie:
He flung the lie back at his accusers.

Give me examples of non-Islamophobic rational and objective criticism of Islam.

Don't give me stupid definitions.

I want to what actual criticism of Islam - actual criticism, mind - you accept as good, rational and non-Islamophobic.

I ask for the sinister and Islamophobic reason that I do not believe for a moment that you accept any actual criticism of Islam as good, reasonable and objective. If you did you would have given us examples already. Instead you are doing the usual slimy and slithery eye rolling routine (and being knowingly dishonest, for you do know what I am asking you but pretend otherwise).

You are cornered, pal, and your only way out is to concede that you are ducking or to provide examples. Same for you your hangers-on - put up of slink orf.

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Soren

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #527 - May 7^th, 2015 at 8:20pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:59pm:

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:33pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 7:02pm:

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 6:56pm:

SO neither you nor the rest of your posse can think of a single example of objective, reasonable and non-Islamophobic criticism of Islam.

No, Soren, we're asking YOU for such an example. Can you provide one? Roll Eyes

All my posts.

Then my criticism stands. Roll Eyes

You make no criticism, Brain. You flame.

Reason and rationality to you are like garlic to a vampire. You think eye-rolling is an argument. You are that thick and that devoid of thought.

When I see some "reason and rationality" I do not flee into my coffin, Soren. Unfortunately I haven't seen much in your posts. I see a great deal of the obverse qualities.

Whenever you are stopped through criticism of your argument, you automatically resort to ad hominem debate, attacking your opponent personally. Time you woke up to yourself. It's incredibly childish watching your posts because of how you react... Roll Eyes

Islamophobia? That seems to me an entirely rational response to an illiberal, vindictive and frankly fascistic creed. I am not a Muslimophobe — I am well aware that enormous numbers of Muslims do not subscribe to all of the particularly unpleasant tenets of Islam as it is practised and preached today. Not all of them wish to chop your head off or stone you to death or simply imprison you for not being one of them, or for being homosexual, or Jewish, or for renouncing your faith because you’ve suddenly realised that it is illiberal, vindictive and fascistic. Not all of them believe that democracy is — much as Hitler saw it — evil, decadent and weak (and not a match for the will of Allah), or that women should be dressed in sackcloth and ashes and not allowed to be educated or to go to work. Or that non-Muslims are a lower species of human being, scarcely human beings at all — ‘cattle’, as the, uh, liberal Muslim columnist Mehdi Hassan once put it. Not all of them persecute or murder Christians, or simply ban them from worshipping their God. Not all of them believe the Holocaust didn’t happen, or that it did happen and it was a bloody good thing, all things considered. Or that freedom of speech and freedom of thought are both ludicrous concepts.

It’s the ideology I have a problem with, then, not so much the people. Although having said that, I’m not keen on those beards they all have. But that’s another issue. Lifelong pogonophobic, me.
There is no such thing as Islamophobia, of course. There are people who dislike Islam and will continue to dislike it.... And they dislike it for perfectly good, rational, reasons.

Comment, bozo.

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Soren

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #528 - May 7^th, 2015 at 8:53pm

mothra wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 5:21pm:

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 3:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 3:39pm:

Soren wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 2:09pm:

The question has always been about examples of objective criticism that is not Islamophobic - it was never about what Gandalf personally likes or dislikes.

What are you talking about - of course it is: thats my "objective criticism that is not Islamophobic" - which is exactly what you were asking for.

Its an example of being critical of issues pertaining to Islam/muslims without resorting to blatant lies. Hell, you don't even have to be objective - be as un-objective as you like - just don't spew lies. Simple really.

So if, like you, I say simply say that "I completely reject" every tenet of Islam - that's OK, that's not I slamophobic. I don't have to say why I reject it all, just saying 'I don't like it' is sufficient. But if I provide reasons for completely rejecting Islam I am likely to stray into Islamophobic territory because giving concrete, critical reasons is Islamophobic lies.

If you say you "completely reject every tenet of Islam" that is not ok. That is Islamophobic. You cannot say you know every tenet to disagree with. There's bound to be something in there you think is reasonable. It only stands to reason. To assume that it is all distasteful to you without knowing it is prejudiced.

Prejudiced relating to Islam is Islamophobia.

The error you are trying to see around Soren is actually in your head. You're conflating issues and failing to see the points made to you. To add to the Islamophobia inherent in the statement about you rejecting every tenet, you also also told a lie. It is untrue that you reject every tenet of Islam for you cannot possibly know them all.

Gandalf has tried to explain to you that open and constructive criticism of Islam can only begin from a point in which no lies are the basis for discussion. That is proving itself to be true in your inability to understand simple concepts. You're just not starting in the right place.

Gandalf and you and the rest of you are furiously ducking the request to provide actual "open and constructive criticism of Islam...in which no lies are the basis for discussion". But despite my asking you about a dozen times, you have not given us a single example of an "open and constructive criticism of Islam... in which no lies are the basis for discussion".

If you actually thought that such criticism existed you would have showed it by now. But you demonstrate you complete bad faith in this discussion by not providing an example of what you say is the proper approach.

You are all dishonest and you all know it.

PS
I completely reject Nazism, Stalinism, Islam, Scientology, woodoo, astrology, satanism, AGW and a load of other things that have no redeeming features as far as I can see. I have not been presented with a single positive aspect of Islam that is not done much more wholesomely and better by other creeds. In other words Islam has no positive feature that was not borrowed from elsewhere. The only unique and new things it brought are bad and I reject them.

But I would like you to prove me wrong and show me what was both new and positive in Islam.

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Brian Ross

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #529 - May 7^th, 2015 at 11:49pm

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 8:20pm:

Islamophobia? That seems to me an entirely rational response to an illiberal, vindictive and frankly fascistic creed. I am not a Muslimophobe — I am well aware that enormous numbers of Muslims do not subscribe to all of the particularly unpleasant tenets of Islam as it is practised and preached today. Not all of them wish to chop your head off or stone you to death or simply imprison you for not being one of them, or for being homosexual, or Jewish, or for renouncing your faith because you’ve suddenly realised that it is illiberal, vindictive and fascistic. Not all of them believe that democracy is — much as Hitler saw it — evil, decadent and weak (and not a match for the will of Allah), or that women should be dressed in sackcloth and ashes and not allowed to be educated or to go to work. Or that non-Muslims are a lower species of human being, scarcely human beings at all — ‘cattle’, as the, uh, liberal Muslim columnist Mehdi Hassan once put it. Not all of them persecute or murder Christians, or simply ban them from worshipping their God. Not all of them believe the Holocaust didn’t happen, or that it did happen and it was a bloody good thing, all things considered. Or that freedom of speech and freedom of thought are both ludicrous concepts.

It’s the ideology I have a problem with, then, not so much the people. Although having said that, I’m not keen on those beards they all have. But that’s another issue. Lifelong pogonophobic, me.
There is no such thing as Islamophobia, of course. There are people who dislike Islam and will continue to dislike it.... And they dislike it for perfectly good, rational, reasons.

Comment, bozo.

This was copied from here. You once again attempt to use other's words without attribution, Soren. Tsk, tsk.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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mothra

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #530 - May 8^th, 2015 at 11:43am

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 8:53pm:

mothra wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 5:21pm:

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 3:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 3:39pm:

Soren wrote on May 6^th, 2015 at 2:09pm:

The question has always been about examples of objective criticism that is not Islamophobic - it was never about what Gandalf personally likes or dislikes.

What are you talking about - of course it is: thats my "objective criticism that is not Islamophobic" - which is exactly what you were asking for.

Its an example of being critical of issues pertaining to Islam/muslims without resorting to blatant lies. Hell, you don't even have to be objective - be as un-objective as you like - just don't spew lies. Simple really.

So if, like you, I say simply say that "I completely reject" every tenet of Islam - that's OK, that's not I slamophobic. I don't have to say why I reject it all, just saying 'I don't like it' is sufficient. But if I provide reasons for completely rejecting Islam I am likely to stray into Islamophobic territory because giving concrete, critical reasons is Islamophobic lies.

If you say you "completely reject every tenet of Islam" that is not ok. That is Islamophobic. You cannot say you know every tenet to disagree with. There's bound to be something in there you think is reasonable. It only stands to reason. To assume that it is all distasteful to you without knowing it is prejudiced.

Prejudiced relating to Islam is Islamophobia.

The error you are trying to see around Soren is actually in your head. You're conflating issues and failing to see the points made to you. To add to the Islamophobia inherent in the statement about you rejecting every tenet, you also also told a lie. It is untrue that you reject every tenet of Islam for you cannot possibly know them all.

Gandalf has tried to explain to you that open and constructive criticism of Islam can only begin from a point in which no lies are the basis for discussion. That is proving itself to be true in your inability to understand simple concepts. You're just not starting in the right place.

Gandalf and you and the rest of you are furiously ducking the request to provide actual "open and constructive criticism of Islam...in which no lies are the basis for discussion". But despite my asking you about a dozen times, you have not given us a single example of an "open and constructive criticism of Islam... in which no lies are the basis for discussion".

If you actually thought that such criticism existed you would have showed it by now. But you demonstrate you complete bad faith in this discussion by not providing an example of what you say is the proper approach.

You are all dishonest and you all know it.

PS
I completely reject Nazism, Stalinism, Islam, Scientology, woodoo, astrology, satanism, AGW and a load of other things that have no redeeming features as far as I can see. I have not been presented with a single positive aspect of Islam that is not done much more wholesomely and better by other creeds. In other words Islam has no positive feature that was not borrowed from elsewhere. The only unique and new things it brought are bad and I reject them.

But I would like you to prove me wrong and show me what was both new and positive in Islam.

No-one is ducking and weaving anything except you Soren. Although what you are doing is not quite so graceful as ducking and weaving. We're all waiting for you to get the point.

Do you or do you not concede that the VAST majority of Islam related material that appears on this forum is sensationalism in the extreme? Do you agree that there are certain posters who post outright lies regarding Islam or at least profoundly out of context so as to demonise Islam? Do you concede that there are people on this forum who present as incapable of having a rational conversation about Islam? Do you concede that nobody is hearing objective criticism of Islam because the goal posts have been shifted so far onto the Islamaphobes side that those of us who are not spend our time trying to drag people up to a starting point for reasoned discourse.

If you DO concede these points, congratulations. You have been paying attention.

If you do NOT concede these points then i can only arrive at the conclusion that there is no point trying to get through to you at all and i shall simply mock you hence-forth, like i do with the others.

And as for completely rejecting a religion or an ideology, to do so you need to understand it lest you make yourself a poorly informed, prejudiced liar.

I utterly reject Islamophobia. I understand it fully. I know the points they are trying to make and i have challenged them intellectually and found them wanting. Likewise i reject white supremacy, racism, sexism, ageism, homophobia and assorted other prejudices and ideologies. But i know them. I have objectively assessed them. You have not done so with Islam.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #531 - May 8^th, 2015 at 12:35pm

Those who use the technically and logically incorrect term Islamophobia are showing their idiocy.

Quote:

Phobia-
noun
A persistent ,irrational fear of a specific object,activity or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/phobia

Islam is a set of beliefs that guide life for muslims, it is not an object,activity or situation, it is a fallacy that one can be phobic of beliefs.

Anyone who uses the term Islamophobia is just showing how retarded they are.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: More Islamophobic attacks? Reply #532 - May 8^th, 2015 at 1:01pm Still hiding from your Islamophobia Baron? How typical of an Islamophobe to argue there is no thing as "Islamophobia", despite our rather obvious pointing out the reverse!
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

Baronvonrort

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #533 - May 8^th, 2015 at 1:05pm

|dev|null wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:01pm:

Still hiding from your Islamophobia Baron? How typical of an Islamophobe to argue there is no thing as "Islamophobia", despite our rather obvious pointing out the reverse! Grin

Islam is a set of beliefs that guide life for muslims, it is a fallacy that one can be phobic of beliefs.

You are not the sharpest tool in the shed hb

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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|dev|null

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #534 - May 8^th, 2015 at 1:14pm

Baronvonrort wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:05pm:

|dev|null wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:01pm:

Still hiding from your Islamophobia Baron? How typical of an Islamophobe to argue there is no thing as "Islamophobia", despite our rather obvious pointing out the reverse! Grin

Islam is a set of beliefs that guide life for muslims, it is a fallacy that one can be phobic of beliefs.

You are not the sharpest tool in the shed hb

Yet you act like you are indeed Phobic about Islam and Muslims.

Won't accept my word? How about the Oxford Dictionary's definition of Islamophobia? Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #535 - May 8^th, 2015 at 1:33pm

|dev|null wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:05pm:

|dev|null wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:01pm:

Still hiding from your Islamophobia Baron? How typical of an Islamophobe to argue there is no thing as "Islamophobia", despite our rather obvious pointing out the reverse! Grin

Islam is a set of beliefs that guide life for muslims, it is a fallacy that one can be phobic of beliefs.

You are not the sharpest tool in the shed hb

Yet you act like you are indeed Phobic about Islam and Muslims.

Won't accept my word? How about the Oxford Dictionary's definition of Islamophobia? Grin

This?
Quote:

Dislike of or predjudice against Islam or muslims,especially as a political force

If we look at where Islam is a political force we have al Shaabab,Boko Haram,Taliban,Islamic state and the Islamic republic of Iran.

All of those areas are ruled by sharia law,heads are chopped off for apostates,homosexuals and witches,adulterers are stoned to death,thieves have hands and feet amputated,women are considered second class citizens.

So I guess you approve of al Shaabab,Boko Haram,Taliban,Islamic state and the mad mullahs from Iran hb? Grin

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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|dev|null

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #536 - May 8^th, 2015 at 2:17pm

Baronvonrort wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:33pm:

|dev|null wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:05pm:

|dev|null wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:01pm:

Still hiding from your Islamophobia Baron? How typical of an Islamophobe to argue there is no thing as "Islamophobia", despite our rather obvious pointing out the reverse! Grin

Islam is a set of beliefs that guide life for muslims, it is a fallacy that one can be phobic of beliefs.

You are not the sharpest tool in the shed hb

Yet you act like you are indeed Phobic about Islam and Muslims.

Won't accept my word? How about the Oxford Dictionary's definition of Islamophobia? Grin

This?
Quote:

Dislike of or predjudice against Islam or muslims,especially as a political force

If we look at where Islam is a political force we have al Shaabab,Boko Haram,Taliban,Islamic state and the Islamic republic of Iran.

Surely cannot forget Indonesia (most Muslim populated nation in the world), Malaysia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tajkistan, Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, Libya, Morrocco, Mali, Niger and so on Baron. Just because you cannot perceive the difference between Islamist and Islamic doesn't preclude the rest of us who aren't Islamophobic! Grin

Quote:

So I guess you approve of al Shaabab,Boko Haram,Taliban,Islamic state and the mad mullahs from Iran hb? Grin

Nope. Do you approve of Joseph Kony, George Pheps or George Pell? Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #537 - May 8^th, 2015 at 3:16pm

|dev|null wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:33pm:

|dev|null wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:05pm:

|dev|null wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 1:01pm:

Still hiding from your Islamophobia Baron? How typical of an Islamophobe to argue there is no thing as "Islamophobia", despite our rather obvious pointing out the reverse! Grin

Islam is a set of beliefs that guide life for muslims, it is a fallacy that one can be phobic of beliefs.

You are not the sharpest tool in the shed hb

Yet you act like you are indeed Phobic about Islam and Muslims.

Won't accept my word? How about the Oxford Dictionary's definition of Islamophobia? Grin

This?
Quote:

Dislike of or predjudice against Islam or muslims,especially as a political force

If we look at where Islam is a political force we have al Shaabab,Boko Haram,Taliban,Islamic state and the Islamic republic of Iran.

So I guess you approve of al Shaabab,Boko Haram,Taliban,Islamic state and the mad mullahs from Iran hb? Grin

Nope.

If we use your oxford definition then dislike of al Shaaba,Boko Haram,Taliban,Islamic state or the Islamic republic of Iran makes you an Islamophobe.

That would make hypocrites like you ,peccahead,mothra and Gandalf Islamophobes!

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Soren

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #538 - May 8^th, 2015 at 5:23pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 11:49pm:

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2015 at 8:20pm:

Islamophobia? That seems to me an entirely rational response to an illiberal, vindictive and frankly fascistic creed. I am not a Muslimophobe — I am well aware that enormous numbers of Muslims do not subscribe to all of the particularly unpleasant tenets of Islam as it is practised and preached today. Not all of them wish to chop your head off or stone you to death or simply imprison you for not being one of them, or for being homosexual, or Jewish, or for renouncing your faith because you’ve suddenly realised that it is illiberal, vindictive and fascistic. Not all of them believe that democracy is — much as Hitler saw it — evil, decadent and weak (and not a match for the will of Allah), or that women should be dressed in sackcloth and ashes and not allowed to be educated or to go to work. Or that non-Muslims are a lower species of human being, scarcely human beings at all — ‘cattle’, as the, uh, liberal Muslim columnist Mehdi Hassan once put it. Not all of them persecute or murder Christians, or simply ban them from worshipping their God. Not all of them believe the Holocaust didn’t happen, or that it did happen and it was a bloody good thing, all things considered. Or that freedom of speech and freedom of thought are both ludicrous concepts.

It’s the ideology I have a problem with, then, not so much the people. Although having said that, I’m not keen on those beards they all have. But that’s another issue. Lifelong pogonophobic, me.
There is no such thing as Islamophobia, of course. There are people who dislike Islam and will continue to dislike it.... And they dislike it for perfectly good, rational, reasons.

Comment, bozo.

This was copied from here. You once again attempt to use other's words without attribution, Soren. Tsk, tsk.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1429659473/77#77

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Soren

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Re: More Islamophobic attacks?
Reply #539 - May 8^th, 2015 at 5:29pm

mothra wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 11:43am:

No-one is ducking and weaving anything except you Soren. Although what you are doing is not quite so graceful as ducking and weaving. We're all waiting for you to get the point.

Do you or do you not concede that the VAST majority of Islam related material that appears on this forum is sensationalism in the extreme? Do you agree that there are certain posters who post outright lies regarding Islam or at least profoundly out of context so as to demonise Islam? Do you concede that there are people on this forum who present as incapable of having a rational conversation about Islam? Do you concede that nobody is hearing objective criticism of Islam because the goal posts have been shifted so far onto the Islamaphobes side that those of us who are not spend our time trying to drag people up to a starting point for reasoned discourse.

If you DO concede these points, congratulations. You have been paying attention.

If you do NOT concede these points then i can only arrive at the conclusion that there is no point trying to get through to you at all and i shall simply mock you hence-forth, like i do with the others.

And as for completely rejecting a religion or an ideology, to do so you need to understand it lest you make yourself a poorly informed, prejudiced liar.

I utterly reject Islamophobia. I understand it fully. I know the points they are trying to make and i have challenged them intellectually and found them wanting. Likewise i reject white supremacy, racism, sexism, ageism, homophobia and assorted other prejudices and ideologies. But i know them. I have objectively assessed them. You have not done so with Islam.

Give me examples of non-Islamophobic rational and objective criticism of Islam.

I want to see what actual criticism of Islam - actual criticism, mind - you accept as good, rational and non-Islamophobic, objective. You say you fully understand Islam - so you must have some criticism of it unless you think it is perfect.

I ask for the sinister and Islamophobic reason that I do not believe for a moment that you accept any actual criticism of Islam as good, reasonable and objective. If you did you would have given us examples already. Instead you are doing the usual slimy and slithery eye rolling routine (and being knowingly dishonest, for you do know what I am asking you but pretend otherwise).

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