Here Soren, i'll give you this one too.
Same questions. Repeated for at least the dozenth time.
Soren wrote on May 7
th, 2015 at 8:53pm:
mothra wrote on May 7
th, 2015 at 5:21pm:
Soren wrote on May 7
th, 2015 at 3:04pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 6
th, 2015 at 3:39pm:
Soren wrote on May 6
th, 2015 at 2:09pm:
The question has always been about examples of objective criticism that is not Islamophobic - it was never about what Gandalf personally likes or dislikes.
What are you talking about - of course it is: thats my "objective criticism that is not Islamophobic" - which is exactly what you were asking for.
Its an example of being critical of issues pertaining to Islam/muslims without resorting to blatant lies. Hell, you don't even have to be objective - be as un-objective as you like - just don't spew lies. Simple really.
So if, like you, I say simply say that "I completely reject" every tenet of Islam - that's OK, that's not I slamophobic. I don't have to say why I reject it all, just saying 'I don't like it' is sufficient. But if I provide reasons for completely rejecting Islam I am likely to stray into Islamophobic territory because giving concrete, critical reasons is Islamophobic lies.
If you say you "completely reject every tenet of Islam" that is not ok. That is Islamophobic. You cannot say you know every tenet to disagree with. There's bound to be something in there you think is reasonable. It only stands to reason. To assume that it is all distasteful to you without knowing it is prejudiced.
Prejudiced relating to Islam is Islamophobia.
The error you are trying to see around Soren is actually in your head. You're conflating issues and failing to see the points made to you. To add to the Islamophobia inherent in the statement about you rejecting every tenet, you also also told a lie. It is untrue that you reject every tenet of Islam for you cannot possibly know them all.
Gandalf has tried to explain to you that open and constructive criticism of Islam can only begin from a point in which no lies are the basis for discussion. That is proving itself to be true in your inability to understand simple concepts. You're just not starting in the right place.
Gandalf and you and the rest of you are furiously ducking the request to provide actual "open and constructive criticism of Islam...in which no lies are the basis for discussion". But despite my asking you about a dozen times, you have not given us a single example of an "open and constructive criticism of Islam... in which no lies are the basis for discussion".
If you actually thought that such criticism existed you would have showed it by now. But you demonstrate you complete bad faith in this discussion by not providing an example of what you say is the proper approach.
You are all dishonest and you all know it.
PS
I completely reject Nazism, Stalinism, Islam, Scientology, woodoo, astrology, satanism, AGW and a load of other things that have no redeeming features as far as I can see. I have not been presented with a single positive aspect of Islam that is not done much more wholesomely and better by other creeds. In other words Islam has no positive feature that was not borrowed from elsewhere. The only unique and new things it brought are bad and I reject them.
But I would like you to prove me wrong and show me what was both new and positive in Islam.
No-one is ducking and weaving anything except you Soren. Although what you are doing is not quite so graceful as ducking and weaving. We're all waiting for you to get the point.
Do you or do you not concede that the VAST majority of Islam related material that appears on this forum is sensationalism in the extreme? Do you agree that there are certain posters who post outright lies regarding Islam or at least profoundly out of context so as to demonise Islam? Do you concede that there are people on this forum who present as incapable of having a rational conversation about Islam? Do you concede that nobody is hearing objective criticism of Islam because the goal posts have been shifted so far onto the Islamaphobes side that those of us who are not spend our time trying to drag people up to a starting point for reasoned discourse.If you DO concede these points, congratulations. You have been paying attention.
If you do NOT concede these points then i can only arrive at the conclusion that there is no point trying to get through to you at all and i shall simply mock you hence-forth, like i do with the others.
And as for completely rejecting a religion or an ideology, to do so you need to understand it lest you make yourself a poorly informed, prejudiced liar.
I utterly reject Islamophobia. I understand it fully. I know the points they are trying to make and i have challenged them intellectually and found them wanting. Likewise i reject white supremacy, racism, sexism, ageism, homophobia and assorted other prejudices and ideologies. But i know them. I have objectively assessed them. You have not done so with Islam.
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