Australian Politics Forum - Hockey's debt & deficit

Its time

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #30 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 4:02pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:32pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Stratos wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:47am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:43am:

It's pretty difficult for anyone to totally avoid paying tax which is why I specifically refer to 'net' tax. Roughly 80% of people pay zero or negative 'net' tax.

Correct Swaggy, assuming the 80% do not pay rates, GST or any other form of tax other than income tax, have multiple children that they get government support for, recieve the old age pension, the disability pension AND unemployment benefits.

Tax paid less additional benefits received = net tax.

Is it collated as a Stat. No. That would upset the ochlocrats.

No, it would simply refute your argument.

You never discuss the fact that the top quintile own about 60% of the wealth in Australia and this proportion is increasing. These hogs grow fatter on the wealth of the nation.

please support this with reputable facts.

Reputable? Have you got Bolts, Ackerman or Jones personal numbers?

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longweekend58

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #31 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 4:05pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:27pm:

I ignore ANYTHING from that travesty of a site. They lie, make stuff up and engage in 'analysis and opinion' that would make even most of the crazies on here blush. I reject ANYTHING they say. If anyone cares to find a balanced article with facts then go for it. But not this trash.

Your opinion of something does not change facts, are the number quoted wrong or skewed?

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:30pm:

its not a fallacy at all. IA has such an appalling record of lying and one-side reporting along with blatant fabrication that it deserves not even the faintest credibility. And if you think that is a fallacy then how about I quote from the Liberal marketing team or Heartland? Compared to IA they are paragons of balance and truthfulness yet you would reject anything they say out of hand.

I don't know about Bam but if you did, as always I'd look at the context of the article, google a few major points then offer my opinion.
If your Lib website or Heartland could actually produce something truthful, backed by facts & documentation then well you either don't comment or address the facts

As I told you, the fact you don't like the messenger does not nullify any facts in the message.

its not about LIKING the messenger but rather that the messenger is a psychotic liar. I am sure there are people you know who you believe nothing of what they say. there are good sources, biased sources (but factual) and then there are the sites which are basically mental illness or rage in HTML. I utterly ignore the later.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #32 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 4:09pm

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:30pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 2:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 11:09am:

an article by independentaustralia and therefore utterly worthless. bias, fabrication and bitter anti-liberal hatred all render the site worthless for any balanced information.

Your logical fallacy is genetic

Quote:

You judged something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.

This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.

its not a fallacy at all.

Not true. You're not even bothering to refute the points raised in the article.

"This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins."

You did this. Fallacy proven.

Quote:

IA has such an appalling record of lying and one-side reporting along with blatant fabrication that it deserves not even the faintest credibility. And if you think that is a fallacy then how about I quote from the Liberal marketing team or Heartland? Compared to IA they are paragons of balance and truthfulness yet you would reject anything they say out of hand.

or here is a thought... why don't we start a thread on this website and look at their articles and I DEFY any of you to post a pro-liberal point of view and get it published. the fact that there are NONE of these should be enough of a hint for you.

This is more fallacious nonsense that is irrelevant to the points raised in the article.

Why don't you refute the points made in the article, rather than posting fallacious crap?

so you want to maintain that IA is a RELIABLE source of information and commentary? Are you really that silly as to make that claim? Some sites do not deserve the right for intelligent people to even consider them. nevermind refute them. now when you want to find this information on a reliable site then I will happily join the debate. I will not however debate on information that might as well have come from Wharfys little voices for all the credibility that IA has.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #33 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 4:09pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:32pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Stratos wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:47am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:43am:

It's pretty difficult for anyone to totally avoid paying tax which is why I specifically refer to 'net' tax. Roughly 80% of people pay zero or negative 'net' tax.

Correct Swaggy, assuming the 80% do not pay rates, GST or any other form of tax other than income tax, have multiple children that they get government support for, recieve the old age pension, the disability pension AND unemployment benefits.

Tax paid less additional benefits received = net tax.

Is it collated as a Stat. No. That would upset the ochlocrats.

No, it would simply refute your argument.

You never discuss the fact that the top quintile own about 60% of the wealth in Australia and this proportion is increasing. These hogs grow fatter on the wealth of the nation.

please support this with reputable facts.

WHERE'S THE PROOF???

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Bam

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #34 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 4:11pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:52pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Stratos wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:47am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:43am:

It's pretty difficult for anyone to totally avoid paying tax which is why I specifically refer to 'net' tax. Roughly 80% of people pay zero or negative 'net' tax.

Correct Swaggy, assuming the 80% do not pay rates, GST or any other form of tax other than income tax, have multiple children that they get government support for, recieve the old age pension, the disability pension AND unemployment benefits.

Tax paid less additional benefits received = net tax.

Is it collated as a Stat. No. That would upset the ochlocrats.

No, it would simply refute your argument.

You never discuss the fact that the top quintile own about 60% of the wealth in Australia and this proportion is increasing. These hogs grow fatter on the wealth of the nation.

Wealth has naught to do with it. They are taxed on income not wealth.

Rubbish. Wealth generates income.

Quote:

I could win Lotto and be fortunately wealthy for 5 minutes. Doesn't mean that I'll be a high income earner next year but I will still have the wealth (one would hope)

If you have a high income you will naturally accrue wealth. You have already been taxed on that income. If you off load your wealth for a capital gain the good old blood sucking government will be leaching off you yet again for their pound of flesh.

As opposed to how many of the wealthy acquired their wealth in the first place - coercion, threats, theft and intimidation?

Quote:

The FACT remains that it is a small percentage of the Collective that pays for everyone else. F A C T

Because they have stolen and hoarded the wealth of the nation. FACT. Ever wonder why the Liberals always seek to privatise things, and always for private profit? They seek to steal the commonwealth, a bit at a time.

Quote:

They pay a sheet-load more tax than the vast majority of others. They (most) do it under duress (threat of prosecution).

And how did many of them accumulate their wealth? By taking it from others under duress, by stealing it for less than its full value.

Quote:

Being made to hand over close to half your income (valuables) under threat is robbery.

Being made to keep only 20% of the value of your labour is robbery. No capitalist ever employs someone unless they can make more profit from that labour than they pay out in wages and overheads.

Quote:

Handing over half your income is effectively working near half your time for nothing. Being made to work for nothing is slavery.

Like the workers do, once their bills are paid?

Quote:

Progressive taxation is therefore slavery. Shocked

Working for subsistence wages is slavery.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Swagman

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Beware of cheap imitations......

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #35 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 4:37pm

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:52pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Stratos wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:47am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:43am:

It's pretty difficult for anyone to totally avoid paying tax which is why I specifically refer to 'net' tax. Roughly 80% of people pay zero or negative 'net' tax.

Correct Swaggy, assuming the 80% do not pay rates, GST or any other form of tax other than income tax, have multiple children that they get government support for, recieve the old age pension, the disability pension AND unemployment benefits.

Tax paid less additional benefits received = net tax.

Is it collated as a Stat. No. That would upset the ochlocrats.

No, it would simply refute your argument.

You never discuss the fact that the top quintile own about 60% of the wealth in Australia and this proportion is increasing. These hogs grow fatter on the wealth of the nation.

Wealth has naught to do with it. They are taxed on income not wealth.

I could win Lotto and be fortunately wealthy for 5 minutes. Doesn't mean that I'll be a high income earner next year but I will still have the wealth (one would hope)

If you have a high income you will naturally accrue wealth. You have already been taxed on that income. If you off load your wealth for a capital gain the good old blood sucking government will be leaching off you yet again for their pound of flesh.

The FACT remains that it is a small percentage of the Collective that pays for everyone else. F A C T

They pay a sheet-load more tax than the vast majority of others. They (most) do it under duress (threat of prosecution).

Being made to hand over close to half your income (valuables) under threat is robbery.

Handing over half your income is effectively working near half your time for nothing. Being made to work for nothing is slavery.

Progressive taxation is therefore slavery. Shocked

Would you rather the wealth hogs accumulate more and more of the nation's wealth until they have it all? What happens then?

The have nots might have to use some enterprise and innovation to earn some wealth instead of relying on handouts

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MBK

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #36 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 5:06pm

John S wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 9:31am:

The worst treasurer in Australia history = Liberal (Hockey)

The best treasurer in Australia history = Labor (Keating)

Got that that a bit wrong old mate.

Hockey is not the worst YET, but should be moved elsewhere.

Costello as the best ever in history of nation.
Keating did us lots of favours but also some disastrous things like tacking us onto Singapore petrol prices for one and super when we had a pension fund for two and so on.
But why argue?
today is when we need action - let them stop playing politics and lets not encourage them.
Not a footy team as too many follow politics seem to behave as if. Roll Eyes

Oh the rolling eyes of a Brian Ross. ha ha.

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Whites, too, have a right to exist. The primary duty you have as a human being is to preserve the heritage of your ancestors and pass on to your children a country they can call their own and where th

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longweekend58

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #37 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 5:18pm

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 4:11pm: