Australian Politics Forum - Hockey's debt & deficit

Dnarever

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #45 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:21pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 5:49pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 5:43pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:30pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 2:56pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1411944797/16#16 date=1411952945]an article by independentaustralia and therefore utterly worthless. bias, fabrication and bitter anti-liberal hatred all render the site worthless for any balanced information.

Your logical fallacy is genetic

Quote:

You judged something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.

This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.

its not a fallacy at all. IA has such an appalling record of lying and one-side reporting along with blatant fabrication that it deserves not even the faintest credibility. And if you think that is a fallacy then how about I quote from the Liberal marketing team or Heartland? Compared to IA they are paragons of balance and truthfulness yet you would reject anything they say out of hand.

or here is a thought... why don't we start a thread on this website and look at their articles and I DEFY any of you to post a pro-liberal point of view and get it published. the fact that there are NONE of these should be enough of a hint for you.

Quote:

Hockey's debt & deficit

Quote:

its not a fallacy at all. IA has such an appalling record of lying and one-side reporting along with blatant

Are you trying to say that Hockey is looking after the finances of IA ?

No its the Australian economy he is stuffing up ?

I also note that you seem to have no issue with the Fella who posts almost every article printed by Bolt who is infinitely more biased than IA.[/quote]

it is statements like that that make you look like such a mental midget. IA isn't just biased. It is well beyond that. AS I said before, I DEFY you to post a pro-abbott comment to IA and watch NONE of them get published. and look for the balanced article that has anything less than abuse an criticism of Abbott. I enjoyed reading IA during the last election for the entertainment of them claiming every poll was wrong except the handful that said Labor were going to win (mostly online and disreputable ones). They were claiming Newspoll were fabricating their polls criminally.

and we all know how that worked out for them, don't we???

Bolt is worse is the point - I have never particularly supported IA but some of their articles are on the mark.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #46 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:30pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 6:37pm:

Let's hear it from those who claim the poor boys are just paying off 'Labor's debt'....

Please explain? Exactly where is this 'massive Labor debt'? All those overpaid pensioners? All the non-borrowings for all the 'privatised' government utilities? Defence?

Where IS this money and all this debt in real facts and figures?

Can anyone provide me with a list.. or jsut more rhetoric?

Now - I hold no brief for either 'side' of The Tag Team - as you all know by now - but I surely resent being told a pack of porkies about debts and stuff, when I know full well this is all in the hype and not the reality.

I predicted twelve months ago that LNP would borrow more than Labor did... seems so today...after all - why else would they abandon the debt ceiling?

Now - what are We The People going to see for all this borrowed cash that those who borrowed it don't have to pay back?

I think we need a People's Commission of Audit right here and now....

so let me get this straight (since nothing you say is every really clear. Are you actually saying there is no Labor debt?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #47 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:32pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:21pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 5:49pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 5:43pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:30pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 2:56pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1411944797/16#16 date=1411952945]an article by independentaustralia and therefore utterly worthless. bias, fabrication and bitter anti-liberal hatred all render the site worthless for any balanced information.

Your logical fallacy is genetic

Quote:

You judged something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.

This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.

its not a fallacy at all. IA has such an appalling record of lying and one-side reporting along with blatant fabrication that it deserves not even the faintest credibility. And if you think that is a fallacy then how about I quote from the Liberal marketing team or Heartland? Compared to IA they are paragons of balance and truthfulness yet you would reject anything they say out of hand.

or here is a thought... why don't we start a thread on this website and look at their articles and I DEFY any of you to post a pro-liberal point of view and get it published. the fact that there are NONE of these should be enough of a hint for you.

Quote:

Hockey's debt & deficit

Quote:

its not a fallacy at all. IA has such an appalling record of lying and one-side reporting along with blatant

Are you trying to say that Hockey is looking after the finances of IA ?

No its the Australian economy he is stuffing up ?

I also note that you seem to have no issue with the Fella who posts almost every article printed by Bolt who is infinitely more biased than IA.[/quote]

it is statements like that that make you look like such a mental midget. IA isn't just biased. It is well beyond that. AS I said before, I DEFY you to post a pro-abbott comment to IA and watch NONE of them get published. and look for the balanced article that has anything less than abuse an criticism of Abbott. I enjoyed reading IA during the last election for the entertainment of them claiming every poll was wrong except the handful that said Labor were going to win (mostly online and disreputable ones). They were claiming Newspoll were fabricating their polls criminally.

and we all know how that worked out for them, don't we???

Bolt is worse is the point - I have never particularly supported IA but some of their articles are on the mark.

what drivel. it is no more simple than that you are a leftie and therefore like IA and hate Bolt. at no point does fact or context ever enter into the equation. This makes your position on any topic 100% predictable and 100% worthless.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #48 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:33pm

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 6:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:32pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Stratos wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:47am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:43am:

It's pretty difficult for anyone to totally avoid paying tax which is why I specifically refer to 'net' tax. Roughly 80% of people pay zero or negative 'net' tax.

Correct Swaggy, assuming the 80% do not pay rates, GST or any other form of tax other than income tax, have multiple children that they get government support for, recieve the old age pension, the disability pension AND unemployment benefits.

Tax paid less additional benefits received = net tax.

Is it collated as a Stat. No. That would upset the ochlocrats.

No, it would simply refute your argument.

You never discuss the fact that the top quintile own about 60% of the wealth in Australia and this proportion is increasing. These hogs grow fatter on the wealth of the nation.

please support this with reputable facts.

Your hypocrisy is breathtaking.

I asked you first. Hundreds of times. You refused. You want to ask others for links? You comply first. You've got a lot of catching up to do, so I suggest you get started. Go now! Chop chop!

YOU claimed this supposed gap is increasing and YOU are the one who has proferred zero evidence to support it. You are wrong and your refusal to support your silliness is further evidence of that.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #49 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:35pm

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:12pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 4:09pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:30pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 2:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 11:09am:

an article by independentaustralia and therefore utterly worthless. bias, fabrication and bitter anti-liberal hatred all render the site worthless for any balanced information.

Your logical fallacy is genetic

Quote:

You judged something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.

This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.

its not a fallacy at all.

Not true. You're not even bothering to refute the points raised in the article.

"This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins."

You did this. Fallacy proven.

Quote:

IA has such an appalling record of lying and one-side reporting along with blatant fabrication that it deserves not even the faintest credibility. And if you think that is a fallacy then how about I quote from the Liberal marketing team or Heartland? Compared to IA they are paragons of balance and truthfulness yet you would reject anything they say out of hand.

or here is a thought... why don't we start a thread on this website and look at their articles and I DEFY any of you to post a pro-liberal point of view and get it published. the fact that there are NONE of these should be enough of a hint for you.

This is more fallacious nonsense that is irrelevant to the points raised in the article.

Why don't you refute the points made in the article, rather than posting fallacious crap?

so you want to maintain that IA is a RELIABLE source of information and commentary? Are you really that silly as to make that claim?

I never said that; that's a straw man. You still persist with fallacies.

Quote:

Some sites do not deserve the right for intelligent people to even consider them. nevermind refute them. now when you want to find this information on a reliable site then I will happily join the debate. I will not however debate on information that might as well have come from Wharfys little voices for all the credibility that IA has.

What on earth makes you think that repeating the same fallacious crap over and over makes it a valid argument when it's already been refuted? Fallacious crap just doesn't cut it.

You've clearly demonstrated that you're not able to refute any of the points raised. Come back when you've got a real point to make.

if your point is so valid then you should have no trouble whatsoever in making it from other sources. the fact that you cant is more than enough evidence that it is rubbish.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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crocodile

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #50 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:38pm

MBK wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 5:06pm:

John S wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 9:31am:

The worst treasurer in Australia history = Liberal (Hockey)

The best treasurer in Australia history = Labor (Keating)

Got that that a bit wrong old mate.

Hockey is not the worst YET, but should be moved elsewhere.

Costello as the best ever in history of nation.
Keating did us lots of favours but also some disastrous things like tacking us onto Singapore petrol prices for one and super when we had a pension fund for two and so on.
But why argue?
today is when we need action - let them stop playing politics and lets not encourage them.
Not a footy team as too many follow politics seem to behave as if. Roll Eyes

Oh the rolling eyes of a Brian Ross. ha ha.

Just out of curiosity, what parameters does one use when assigning the mantle of best, 2nd, 3rd and worst treasurer ?

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Bam

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #51 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:51pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 5:20pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 4:11pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:52pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Stratos wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:47am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:43am:

It's pretty difficult for anyone to totally avoid paying tax which is why I specifically refer to 'net' tax. Roughly 80% of people pay zero or negative 'net' tax.

Correct Swaggy, assuming the 80% do not pay rates, GST or any other form of tax other than income tax, have multiple children that they get government support for, recieve the old age pension, the disability pension AND unemployment benefits.

Tax paid less additional benefits received = net tax.

Is it collated as a Stat. No. That would upset the ochlocrats.

No, it would simply refute your argument.

You never discuss the fact that the top quintile own about 60% of the wealth in Australia and this proportion is increasing. These hogs grow fatter on the wealth of the nation.

Wealth has naught to do with it. They are taxed on income not wealth.

Rubbish. Wealth generates income.

Quote:

I could win Lotto and be fortunately wealthy for 5 minutes. Doesn't mean that I'll be a high income earner next year but I will still have the wealth (one would hope)

If you have a high income you will naturally accrue wealth. You have already been taxed on that income. If you off load your wealth for a capital gain the good old blood sucking government will be leaching off you yet again for their pound of flesh.

As opposed to how many of the wealthy acquired their wealth in the first place - coercion, threats, theft and intimidation?

Quote:

The FACT remains that it is a small percentage of the Collective that pays for everyone else. F A C T

Because they have stolen and hoarded the wealth of the nation. FACT. Ever wonder why the Liberals always seek to privatise things, and always for private profit? They seek to steal the commonwealth, a bit at a time.

Quote:

They pay a sheet-load more tax than the vast majority of others. They (most) do it under duress (threat of prosecution).

And how did many of them accumulate their wealth? By taking it from others under duress, by stealing it for less than its full value.

Quote:

Being made to hand over close to half your income (valuables) under threat is robbery.

Being made to keep only 20% of the value of your labour is robbery. No capitalist ever employs someone unless they can make more profit from that labour than they pay out in wages and overheads.

Quote:

Handing over half your income is effectively working near half your time for nothing. Being made to work for nothing is slavery.

Like the workers do, once their bills are paid?

Quote:

Progressive taxation is therefore slavery. Shocked

Working for subsistence wages is slavery.

are you stupid or something??? you expect employers to pay people for MORE than they produce????

That's a straw man fallacy. Come back when you've got a real argument rather than your usual technique of drive-by shootings.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Its time

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #52 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:52pm

crocodile wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:38pm:

MBK wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 5:06pm:

John S wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 9:31am:

The worst treasurer in Australia history = Liberal (Hockey)

The best treasurer in Australia history = Labor (Keating)

Got that that a bit wrong old mate.

Hockey is not the worst YET, but should be moved elsewhere.

Costello as the best ever in history of nation.
Keating did us lots of favours but also some disastrous things like tacking us onto Singapore petrol prices for one and super when we had a pension fund for two and so on.
But why argue?
today is when we need action - let them stop playing politics and lets not encourage them.
Not a footy team as too many follow politics seem to behave as if. Roll Eyes

Oh the rolling eyes of a Brian Ross. ha ha.

Just out of curiosity, what parameters does one use when assigning the mantle of best, 2nd, 3rd and worst treasurer ?

When your handed economic reforms in boom times on a platter you certainly don't need to sell 2/3rds of your gold reserves, that alone moves you well past position 7.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hockey's debt & deficit
Reply #53 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:53pm

Bam wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:51pm: